tjamz;246124 wrote:
How is it bad for kids to help out their communities...

Typical liberal drivel. :icon_geek:

The end doesn't justify the means.

Parker;246188 wrote:
a full days work? whats that like?

Fucking welfare leaches...

weshole;246137 wrote:
It also teaches them the value of a days work. Something A LOT of todays youth lack.
a full days work? whats that like?

It's basically saying "Hey, you're trying to better yourself by furthering your education. Well congrats, but, you gotta serve 100 hours a year doing community service to stay enrolled"

No thanks...I prefer the idea where anyone on welfare HAS to, anyone attending school has it as an option.

MisterCMK;246141 wrote:
So will a paying job. Money talks and bullshit walks. Earning a paycheck for work performed will teach them a hell of a lot more about a days work than having to do mandatory community service.

This was something I was referring to be happening before they were able to have a job. Make it something they can actually earn credits for. Nothing too substantial, just to make it worth while. It'll give them a sense of self worth in the process. I am speaking from a parents perspective and I believe it done <u>properly</u>, it can be beneficial to all involved.

weshole;246137 wrote:
It also teaches them the value of a days work. Something A LOT of todays youth lack.

So will a paying job. Money talks and bullshit walks. Earning a paycheck for work performed will teach them a hell of a lot more about a days work than having to do mandatory community service.

tjamz;246125 wrote:
Helping your community is also a social skill to some degree as it allows you to interact with others by helping your community. I never said it had to teach respect/sharing...we already do that. This goes beyond that.

That is quite the stretch there...

Feel free to help your community, but what is the point of making it required?

tjamz;246124 wrote:
aside from the potential costs....what is the actual downside to this is what I want to know. How is it bad for kids to help out their communities...especially if it can be done during school hours and w/ minimal (if any) taxpayer dollars.

Besides, it has already had the "required" part dropped in high school/middle school...so apparently there was a whole lot feather ruffling over nothing at that level. I still like the idea of making it an optional class that they would get credit for completing.

The downside? They have already been mentioned. I have a hard time believing that it can be done without spending tax dollars on it. I call bullshit on anybody that says it can. As far as being done in school hours, how does that jive with current curriculum requirements which many schools have a hard time meeting already? Wouldn't this go against the No Child Left Behind act?

If you want to make this an elective class, it will turn into an absolute joke where people are "volunteering" or doing "community service" just to get out of school and not actually completing the requirements.

weshole;246137 wrote:
It also teaches them the value of a days work. Something A LOT of todays youth lack.

Communist

MisterCMK;246122 wrote:
So what you really meant was social skills, not basic values. Regardless, mandatory community service certainly does not teach somebody to respect their peers nor does it teach them to share.

Helping your community is also a social skill to some degree as it allows you to interact with others by helping your community. I never said it had to teach respect/sharing...we already do that. This goes beyond that.

Besides, it has already had the "required" part dropped in high school/middle school...so apparently there was a whole lot feather ruffling over nothing at that level. I still like the idea of making it an optional class that they would get credit for completing.

tjamz;246115 wrote:
By basic values I mean interacting with others in a respectful manner, sharing, helping each other to complete a project, and other things of that nature. All of which are taught (or attempted to be taught) in the public school system.

So what you really meant was social skills, not basic values. Regardless, mandatory community service certainly does not teach somebody to respect their peers nor does it teach them to share.

Because students in Med School (for example) or those who have full time jobs and are also pursuing another degree have lots of spare time!

That's plainly the problem.

A key reason that I'll be homeschooling is that some people think they've got the singular answer on what ought to be taught to other people's children. There is an implied (or blatant) worldview being conveyed when recounting history, news, politics, current events, morality, or anything else you get into outside of the breathtaking purity of mathematics (which, incidentally, public schools don't teach very well, anyway).

I am not willing to cede control of that worldview to you (any of you), the feds, or anyone else besides my wife.

My child(ren) will not learn "morals" from the government. It has neither the justification nor the ability to teach them.

tjamz;246103 wrote:
I agree with you on being torn about this. On one hand I don't want the Gov't to have any more influence on my lives or the lives of my children...on the other hand schools are there to teach basic values, and this could be a good way to do it.....

No, it schools are not there to teach basic values. They are there to provide a basic education. Values and beliefs are taught in the home and are a personal thing, not a government or school thing. When did it become the government's job to raise your kids?

weshole;246076 wrote:
Back to the original reason of this thread. Im torn on my feelings on this. On one hand, I think it is good for our youth to learn responsibility to do something for their community and or country. I also think that being forced or mandated to do it is not freedom at all. What I want to know is... How is this going to be policed and what is the punishment for non compliance? Who's ultimately liable if the child does not comply? <u>Someone tell me this.</u>

I agree with you on being torn about this. On one hand I don't want the Gov't to have any more influence on my lives or the lives of my children...on the other hand schools are there to teach basic values, and this could be a good way to do it.....

At this point anything anyone tells you is speculation. He was elected president, not God. I'd be surprised if anything truly gets done on most of his more "radical" bills...even with a left leaning congress.

tjamz;246074 wrote:
I will have to see the ban that actually get presented vs the what was said on the campaign trail. For the most part, I am against an AWB ban, but in all honesty, I don't see it making it out of the house & senate...especially not without a super majority and not in hunting states (read: ND, MN, SD, etc..) it will get filibustered and watered down...does it make it right? I dunno, pure speculation there and I will reserve judgment until that time....I will say this, the last AWB ban didn't stop me from buying "assault weapons"...made them harder to come by for sure, but didn't outright stop it from happening.

Here is how he has voted/spoken on this issue:

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

If the first AWB ban went back in, I'd be ok with it (would prefer it didn't...but I could live with it)...if it is expanded to more weapons like has been suggested, well, he probably wouldn't get my vote in 2012.

Obama has been a VERY large anti gun proponent and said that Bush not re-signing into law the AWB was a scandal...

Would you believe the Brady campaign if they were to suddenly say they were pro gun? I highly doubt you or any other person with an IQ above 50 would...so why believe someone whose history shows they are anti gun when they say "oh I believe it's everyones right"? He HATES concealed carry, HATES "assault weapons", HATES guns in general. His words can't mask his voting and attempted legislation record.

PSiedTSi;246063 wrote:
WOW Bubba I'm impressed! That was ACTUALLY a great post lol...

I can actually put a good 2 cents in if I really want... i'm usually too lazy... This has to be one of my most favorite quotes, because it helps prove a point. That being that without the second amendment, and having armed citizens, there is no real stopping of the government from taking away the rest of our rights as citizens. One of the best ways to keep a government in check, and to follow the true wants of it's citizens, is the fact that there's a chance if they wrong them they can rebel against that government. If the colonists wouldnt have had guns, i'm pretty sure we'd still be just another territory of Great Britain.