besides, how mad would you be if you instead of looking at sloots all day you had to spend it with your mom in your kitchen going over differential equations? NO THANKS! ill take open campus lunches with friends, having a good time between classes at lockers, and raping the fat kids in flag football any day.

im not going to be a rocket scientist but i am graduating from college. i can also say that i dont regret my childhood or the way my parents raised me. take that into consideration when deciding to home school your children.

ichibankilla;264582 wrote:
That's extra curricular so it doesn't count.:icon_tongue:

not if it happend during school hours...

Colin;264574 wrote:
I slept with more student teachers than you did.

Then I also graduated.

me= 2 you = 1

Simple math shows that 2 > 1. I accomplished more.:icon_cheers:

lol

That's extra curricular so it doesn't count.:icon_tongue:

Do I think that this bill will work for its intended purpose? no.
Do I think that everyone should be as well educated as they can be? yes.

Maybe rather than mandatory highschool enrollment, they make you attend a school, including trade schools, colleges, or even involved in a apprenticeship.

I know that I spent a great deal of highschool time at MSUM earning myself college credits.

I also know many people who would have been better off outside of MHS and in, say, an autobody class or maybe learning a trade from someone who knew what they were doing.

ichibankilla;264320 wrote:
How the hell does one person accomplish more in high school than another?

I slept with more student teachers than you did.

Then I also graduated.

me= 2 you = 1

Simple math shows that 2 > 1. I accomplished more.:icon_cheers:

lol

There are people, who, in a thread about education and its relationship to the state, can only contribute the following [paraphrased]

"Reading is hard"

And yet when it comes to deciding who shall teach your children, what they shall be taught, and the manner of their instruction, our votes count equally.

Lest you surmise I fancy myself some member of a ruling class, which I did profess to hate elsewhere, I beleive it is important that the government counts votes equally.

The other side of that coin, however, is that very little actually be put to the public or to vote. In as many cases as possible, men should decide as individuals what is right for themselves and themselves only.

Or would you prefer *society *also had a *vote *in where you worked or whom you married?

Trafik Jamz;264540 wrote:
This guy

chuck...you must have a laptop and spend alot of time on the toilet!

Trafik Jamz;264546 wrote:
I'd say that public school isn't designed to conform you at all or make you uniform.

Finish the article at mises.org and see if you still think so

It's designed to introduce you to a large variety of people...people you will have to deal with in society.

Public school mostly taught me that i didn't want to deal with certain people in society. It's what I learned outside of public school that gave me the tools to largely acheive that in my life.

It's not clear that society should force people to associate with people they'd rather not associate with. Infact, I think I remember reading about some kind of freedom of association thing somewhere in our founding documents (those same documents that are the only things that bind us together as "Americans", since we share no common ancestry, no common race, no common religion, etc. I wish they'd spent more time on *that *in public school....)

It does give every kid a basic chance/opportunity to gather the minimal skills necessary to survive in the real world.

Is this exclusively a feature of public schooling as we know it, or could this be satisfied in other ways? And if this is the only justification for public schooling, how are we to judge its success? Certainly not by the number of people who allegedly slip "Below poverty" every year. Certainly not by the graduation rates of HS seniors. Certainly not by the need to re-center SAT and ACT scores "upward" over time.

By what metric would you conclude that Americans are largely surviving in the real world? By what reasoning would you lay that at the foot of the effectiveness of public school?

Trafik Jamz;264539 wrote:
No one requires it now. In ND you have open enrollment, you can pretty much go where ever you want.

The point is that you have to go somewhere. And that somewhere has to meet standards set by the government. And ND is one of the most anti-homeschooling states in the US. I encourage you to support ND HB 1171 if you are an ND resident, since it will make homeschooling easier.

I'm with you on about 75% of this....I still want school attendance to be mandatory until you are 18 though.

Why?

If that is true and it is the will of the people, then I'd say that democracy is working? The people are getting what they want and what they voted for?

But this isn't a democracy. It's a republic. What most of the people want isn't necessarily what the law should be. The law, infact, is supposed to protect individuals and minorities from the fashionable wims of the mob. A republican form of government (not the party, but the form of government) is based on a system of written laws, and our republican government is founded on the constitution, a negative rights document, enumerating the powers of the government.

See above....and come on, if you were president, would you send your kids to a public school? I wouldn't. Not because of the poor education, but rather because of the security and other crap that comes with being the child of a president. I don't envy the kids of presidents at all.

Well, I'm not president, and I don't plan on sending my kid to any school at all

See, we mostly agree on things. Our views on some issues differ, but at the end of the day, I'd say we agreed on more than we disagreed on....I think if everyone looked beyond their party lines and had open discussions like this, you would find that it would be hard to tell one side from the other at the end of the day.

Ok but the key point we disagree on is that you feel that the state should compel students to do something they may not want to do. Furthermore, in practice, this means they should do it in the same place that other kids who want to be there [or don't NOT want to be there badly enought to run away/piss of their parents/whatever] will be in the same educational "pot".

How do you make one room, one teacher, and one set of textbooks work as jail for some kids and education for others?

One other important point. Let me state the following: suppose for a moment that I think keeping kids in school until they're 18 is best for me, best for them, and best for society.

Is that sufficient reason to make it law? It's just my opinion. By what authority does the state have the right to imprison kids? Is it ok of prison is spelled s-c-h-o-o-l ? If the aim here is to put kids that cannot be "Trusted" to be responsible into some sort of prison or detention, why not just do that?

thrash;264541 wrote:
It obviously did not prepare me to understand what your point is.

Based on your post, since public school failed to do to me what it was designed to do, public school is good?

Sorry, I'm not really getting what you're after here.
Thank you for proving my point....

D S ohM;264544 wrote:
My brain hurts. Too much reading.

drop out now...before you learn something.

thrash;264541 wrote:
Based on your post, since public school failed to do to me what it was designed to do, public school is good?

I'd say that public school isn't designed to conform you at all or make you uniform. It's designed to introduce you to a large variety of people...people you will have to deal with in society.

It does give every kid a basic chance/opportunity to gather the minimal skills necessary to survive in the real world.

Link;264528 wrote:
My cousin is currently going to school in Japan and they literally will not let you use a calculator for math. Reason being.. They want to make the kids LEARN and apply themselves.
Sounds like the high school I went to in ND.

Parker;264523 wrote:
Did public schooling make you equal? Uniform? Did it turn you into a conformist?

It obviously did not prepare me to understand what your point is.

Based on your post, since public school failed to do to me what it was designed to do, public school is good?

Sorry, I'm not really getting what you're after here.

RidinRails;264526 wrote:
who has time to read all that shit anyways?

This guy

You're confused on two points.

First, there is a public interest in ensuring that any child or family that wants to go to school can do so. There is not a public justification for REQUIRING all children go to the SAME school.No one requires it now. In ND you have open enrollment, you can pretty much go where ever you want.

Secondly, the education a kid receives has a lot to do with the kid. A better school can only "give" an education. Receiving it is up to the kid. Bush and Obama both went to cushy private schools, but I have better standardized test scores than either of them [and some kids that didn't get the advantages I had definitely outscore me]

The point is that you might send your kids to a better school, but apart from biological advantage, your kid will really determine how far he/she goes in life. Putting them in a better environment gives them certain advntages, but guarantees nothing. There are lots of rich stupid kids.Agreed as well. However, if the "rich" hire all of the best/most competent teachers from the pool at higher pay, it is fairly safe to say that the "poor" will have to deal with a 2nd class education at best with 2nd class materials to learn from.

What I want is for the government to have no little or not control of WHO teaches and WHAT they teach. I am absolutely in favor of making sure that families that want their kids to go to school have a school to send them to. And unlike public education in the US, I'd let them choose what school that would be. I'd let the school -- and thus the parents, in a competitive school system -- determine which teachers were rewarded, which teaching styles were encouraged for which children, which topics were appropriate for school [as opposed to home], and so on.I'm with you on about 75% of this....I still want school attendance to be mandatory until you are 18 though.

Nonsense. The majority of the people in this country think the government should have more power and should control every aspect of their lives. They may not say it so directly but in broad strokes, they keep electing politicians that beleive and act on precisely that ideology. It doesn't matter whether they want fudge topping or chopped nuts, the ice cream flavor everyone orders is "more paternalism, please".If that is true and it is the will of the people, then I'd say that democracy is working? The people are getting what they want and what they voted for?

Look, the president doesn't beleive in public education for his own kids. He just nominated the guy that ran Chicago to run the whole US. Obama had the opportunity to show his faith in the value, the goals, etc, of public education when he lived in Chicago. For his OWN children, he clearly did not trust the new US education secretary to give his kids the education he wanted them to have.A good point, but Obama's kids went to the school that he taught at "the University of Chicago Lab School" of course he's going to send his kids there. But your point is well taken.

What more damning criticism of public school could there be? Everyone on the left wants public school, except for their own children.See above....and come on, if you were president, would you send your kids to a public school? I wouldn't. Not because of the poor education, but rather because of the security and other crap that comes with being the child of a president. I don't envy the kids of presidents at all.

Fuck them. There isn't a ruling class in this country. They'll find out sooner or later.Agreed.

See, we mostly agree on things. Our views on some issues differ, but at the end of the day, I'd say we agreed on more than we disagreed on....I think if everyone looked beyond their party lines and had open discussions like this, you would find that it would be hard to tell one side from the other at the end of the day.

This is the point I've tried to make all along with my political threads/posts/rants/etc... as soon as we all get over ourselves and stop playing the blame game and start playing the working together game, this country will be great again. It's too bad that so many peoples egos prevent this from becoming a reality.