integra_gsr98;275584 wrote:
How about that wonder of German engineering in your mercedes Jim?

Man... never again... well maybe... but not another SLK... Maybe an SL next time around... LOL

thrash;275570 wrote:
My first BMW had 220,000 miles on it when I bought it [original drivetrain]
My 2nd BMW had 98,000 miles on it when I bought it [original drivetrain]
My 3rd BMW had 190,000 miles on it when I bought it [original drivetrain]

The last two have seen a fair bit of racetrack abuse. Both are 20+ years old.

These cars are well built, but they require the appropriate amount of care and feeding. They are "durable", not "reliable". You can't just neglect them forever and expect showroom new performance.

BMW says you should change your brake fluid every 2 years.

In America, people never change brake fluid. Every hood I look under has a chocolate syrup resivoir. I don't even feel safe in the average economy car, because it is underbraked, under suspended, riding on shit tires, and has a crash structure as stiff as wet paper.

In 2009 [or sometime in the last few years.. i haven't actually checked for 09] you can still get vehicles in America with DRUM BRAKES and no ABS. That's ridiculous.

One of mine had 105,000 and the other has 150,000 and still going strong...

The last two have seen a fair bit of racetrack abuse. Both are 20+ years old.

These cars are well built, but they require the appropriate amount of care and feeding. They are "durable", not "reliable". You can't just neglect them forever and expect showroom new performance.

BMW says you should change your brake fluid every 2 years.

In America, people never change brake fluid. Every hood I look under has a chocolate syrup resivoir. I don't even feel safe in the average economy car, because it is underbraked, under suspended, riding on shit tires, and has a crash structure as stiff as wet paper.

In 2009 [or sometime in the last few years.. i haven't actually checked for 09] you can still get vehicles in America with DRUM BRAKES and no ABS. That's ridiculous.

Trafik Jamz;275410 wrote:
I know this Colin, I was kind hoping he'd come back with the "How many F1 races has Subaru entered...." argument. Like thrash said, this seemed like a troll thread from the get go, I just played along. :icon_cheers:

love playing devils advocate

As far as the price to maintain a BMW/any other german car...Yes they are spendy as hell. I recently had my service 2 done on my BMW 325xi And it was nearly a grand. The more tech you have in your car the more that can go wrong.. All these things need to be maintained and checked to prevent failure. This is why so many german cars have a bad rep associated with their names.Bottom line: Its simply invevitable that owners who fail to take care of a car of this calibier WILL get kick in the ass at 100k+. A german car thats been well maintained for the younger years of its life will be rolling well after 150k no problem

Eurofan;275465 wrote:
Pricless and typical. Comparing a totally new design with 5 year old design.

hahah win.

capitlj;275385 wrote:
Oh and BTW
CTS-V > M5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQp5ih_QOE0

Pricless and typical. Comparing a totally new design with 5 year old design.

Colin;275356 wrote:
I wish people would stop using the WRC as a spotlight for subarus awesomeness. It's not. A WRC subaru is a million dollar race car.

I know this Colin, I was kind hoping he'd come back with the "How many F1 races has Subaru entered...." argument. Like thrash said, this seemed like a troll thread from the get go, I just played along. :icon_cheers:

Jim;275300 wrote:
:rolleyes:

... and that's why domestic car companies sell so many cars!

Ford outsold Toyota last month. I know they are the exception, but in general terms yes they do, just recently no they don't. Then again new car sales are down for like everyone.

inspector01;275302 wrote:
The domestics need the parts in stock cuz things go wrong so much more often, I thought that one was pretty obvious....

Maybe in the past but not anymore. Again in my experience selling parts, 5+ years BTW, I sell nearly as many power steering pumps, alternators, batteries, ball joints, brake rotors, etc. for Hondas as I do for Chevy's. The numbers are skewed a little toward domestics because, in the area, there are far more domestic vehicles on the road then imports. Statistically speaking I'm goin to sell more parts for a 1/2 ton chevy truck because for every 1 person in the F-M area there are 1.5 Chevy trucks.:icon_geek: But that still doesn't take the cost element out of the equation or the fact that I can't find a belt at all for an A8, or the M5, or the Range Rover. By your logic then the serpentine belts on those vehicles will last longer because they were manufactured overseas. Ummm hate to burst your bubble but that's pure bullshit.

If you really wanted to show why a subaru is as good as it is, go to a rally event and see the numbers from PGT and open on down. 3 of every 4 cars is a subaru. They are cheap, fast, and have the "best" (meaning most powerful, durable, and cost efficient) driveline in the business.

Same goes for track imprezas. They are easily fast, reliable, cheap cars that preform at or above average.

BMW and audi both smoke subaru for high end performance. until you blow you tranny or bend a control arm 4 times in a single event and have to replace them. subaru = 1000$, audi equals = too much.

If you have the money, it doesn't matter what you start with. They all end up fucking fast.

That being said: if i had the money, i like the idea of the track prep'ed M3....

Also: BMW's are only for lame yuppie pinko faggots.

Jim;275300 wrote:
:rolleyes:

... and that's why domestic car companies sell so many cars!

LOL

that and compare quality of those parts. factory mopar parts from chrysler are crap, air filters collapse and tear and never seal properly. hondas are nice plastic peices with very high quality materials. chrysler price for all their air filters: 28.10 hondas price for ALL air filters: 22.75 hmm

that and also euro engineering is just crap. working on any VW or audi is enough stress to make you want to stab your self in neck. even simple tasks like changing bulbs require special order tools. completly pointless. that along with BMW and mercedes not knowing how to make a car without electrical issues for the last half decade really makes me believe euro cars have something over the competition rolls eyes

theres a reason all the valley imports employees drive hondas and mistubishis...

... and that's why domestic car companies sell so many cars!

Domestic > Import

Jim;275297 wrote:
BTW, obviously Japanese cars (minus perhaps Mitsu) are more reliable then German cars...
If honda made a 20,000(in 90's) awd turbo sports car I don't think it would be half as reliable as an eclipse.... A reliable counterpart for a DSM would cost probably twice as much. FAST, CHEAP AND RELIABLE, PICK 2(if your lucky)

Jim;275294 wrote:
Your Z is considerably older, compare maybe a 350z or a G35 parts to the generation they are driving. Audi / VW are NOT known for reliability. My Merc was unreliable.

BMW FTW lol

BTW, obviously Japanese cars (minus perhaps Mitsu) are more reliable then German cars...

GhettoFabulousCRX;275292 wrote:
At the moment my dad drives a taureg and my mom drives an A6. They have always been into german/euro cars. We have owned a lot of VW's, saabs, audis. Funny thing is my dad really wants a WRX haha. A week after my mom bought the A6 one of the LEDs behind the dash went out. After taking it to a couple places around town and a few refusing to work on it they said "i dunno buy a new cluster" She just ended up dealing with it because it was well over a grand. Then the ignition went out three times, same deal with the a/c compressor. Nothing is under a grand to fix it's redic. Both are amazing in the snow and comfy. Just not worth it IMO. I don't give a shit what you spend your money on. Lord knows not everyone wants to have a Z they have to work on all the time either haha. Thinking your car makes you cooler than everyone else is pretty stupid though.

Z parts do not compare to euro parts sorry.

Your Z is considerably older, compare maybe a 350z or a G35 parts to the generation they are driving. Audi / VW are NOT known for reliability. My Merc was unreliable.

BMW FTW lol

Jim;275280 wrote:
What kind of car are we talking about?

All german cars are not created equal.

Talking about how expensive parts are... from a dude with a TT 300zx lol

At the moment my dad drives a taureg and my mom drives an A6. They have always been into german/euro cars. We have owned a lot of VW's, saabs, audis. Funny thing is my dad really wants a WRX haha. A week after my mom bought the A6 one of the LEDs behind the dash went out. After taking it to a couple places around town and a few refusing to work on it they said "i dunno buy a new cluster" She just ended up dealing with it because it was well over a grand. Then the ignition went out three times, same deal with the a/c compressor. Nothing is under a grand to fix it's redic. Both are amazing in the snow and comfy. Just not worth it IMO. I don't give a shit what you spend your money on. Lord knows not everyone wants to have a Z they have to work on all the time either haha. Thinking your car makes you cooler than everyone else is pretty stupid though.

Z parts do not compare to euro parts sorry.

GhettoFabulousCRX;275250 wrote:
It seems like joo knoe a lots about WRC. Wait just kidding Subaru is no longer participating. For real though my parents are huge into german cars. They are nothing special and cost ten times more to fix. Also simple stuff we have had to order from germany. My moms car sat in the shop for a week waiting for an ignition, and it was like 600$! Before that it was three a/c compressors that just kept not working.

What kind of car are we talking about?

All german cars are not created equal.

Talking about how expensive parts are... from a dude with a TT 300zx lol

JN210;275276 wrote:
I heard that subaru is going away...is that true?

No, they left WRC as a factory team (mostly due to issues with Prodrive according to rumors) but their cars are still used by privateers, etc...

And since subaru was the ONLY car manufacturer last year to increase its sales vs the previous year, I'd say they are still doing something right....being partially owned by Toyota doesn't hurt either.