97jeep wrote:
do you use your own vehicle?

Yes.

One caveat to be aware of is that your vehicle has to be inspected prior to showing up at the track (the Northstar BMW CCA site has a checklist as a pdf file you bring to a shop) by a real mechanic.

It's a little frustrating since I do all my own work but having a 2nd opinion of a real professional is probably a good idea.

thrash wrote:
I've had poor luck with one stop in town on university. It was in the winter and when the light turned green i "lit up the tires" in my AWD car. There was a cop a few cars behind me that i didn't know about (my rear glass was still defrosting so i couldn't make out car / headlight shapes, only that there were vehicles behind me)

The cop was pretty pissed off at me so wrote me a "too fast for conditions" ticket, which i contested in court via self representation.

During cross examination I caught the officer in several logical contradictions but the judge found me guilty anyway. this was after i sat through a few other trials of highschool girls running stop signs, running off the road, etc due to ice that got reduced sentences/fines. One girl damn-near t-boned a cop because she couldn't stop for a stop sign due to ice.

At no time did i do anything illegal according to the letter or the spirit of the law - i stayed in my lane, the officer did not read any speed on me, the officer admitted he was travelling faster than me, the officer couldn't tell me what speed was "too fast" or what speed would ahve been "acceptable", etc etc.

The subjectivity of the law is such that the cops and the judge have pretty good latitude in what they charge you with and convict you of. This was the only time i've tried self representation. In future tickets where I feel contesting them is necessary, I'll hire a lawyer. In the last jurisdiction i lived in, legal representation was required to get a favorable outcome.. you could make the same argument a lawyer would but if you hadn't paid into the bar-members-association club (i.e. you weren't a lawyer) you were guilty, simple as that.

Luckily in Fargo the moving violation structure is pretty lenient.. you guys dont realize how good you've got it.. 2 pts and below is non reportable to insurance.. points decay very rapidly... and the fines are pretty low.

As far as younger drivers causing more trouble.. I'm still under 30 but a few of you guys might call me "grandpa" if we ever met All the usual caveats about generalizations notwithstanding, older/more experienced drivers tend to drive better than younger/less experienced ones. Inattentiveness is a problem for sure, but then most inattentive drivers do not push the performance envelope of thier own or their vehicles capabilities. When they do screw up, it tends to be less dramatic.

A number of studies of drivers and driving (focusing on race drivers vs the normal popoulation ) have shown that people like michael schumacher do not have considerably different reflexes than you or me... top talent in competitive driving comes down primarily to experience and intelligence, not natural ability or physical differentiation.

As is repeated over and over at the track... "there is no such thing as a natural". Anyone that thinks they were born God-of-Driving, or 2 years after getting a license and having a pizza delivery job is going to be running F1 in a year or two will typically get their ass handed to them and go home stuffed with humble pie after going to the track... assuming they keep the shiny side up all weekend and go home at all.

The other mitigating factor is that for younger drivers, the "newness" and the desire to impress or draw attention aggrivate the already volitale situation. I don't mean to speak poorly towards anyone in particular here; when i was younger i did a lot of stupid things because i just didn't know better and didn't have the longer-term perspective that I have now. I still drive very very hard but with age comes a steadily rising waistline and a bit of wisdom about when, where, and to waht extent you should engage in tomfoolery on the street:) I don't mind admitting that i've grossly violated the posted limit on a public road somewhere near town, but in the same breath i curse people that roll through my neighborhood at 40mph when the posted 25 is probably too fast given how many street-parked cars and children there are.

At some point you get a good feel for how "exposed" you are as a driver to possible LEO activity. If you don't feel confident you can be screwing around without a cop seeing you, that probably also means that there are too many other cars, houses, etc that you really shouldn't be screwing around anyway. In an empty wide open space there are no where for cops to hide, which means there are no places for kids to hide either, so opening up the car is probably fine.

All that said - if you get charged with a violation that is more than 2 pts, it will be reported to your insurance carrier and that is the real screwjob... that premium spike will not decay for 3-5 years, depending on carrier. Any moving iolation that is more than 2 points you should contest via legal representation.. even if it is a few hundred bucks to retain a lawyer. When you amortize the cost of the lawyer over the 3-5 years of increased premiums (in addition to the marginal fine) you come out ahead by trying to fight it.

Never mind that by fighting it you cost the city government money, which dilutes the "profitability" of speed enforcement programs, which, based on places i've lived, are a lot more about a government money grab than keeping people safe (why is it that cops park on our 3 lane empty interstates looking for speeders, but not in residential neighborhoods that have through-streets?)

Everyone that loves cars owes it to themselves to try and get some real driver training at a proper track. You'll drive safer on the street as a result, and you can have a load of fun without any worry about hurting others or your driving record

OMG summary please

thrash wrote:
The BMW club runs 2 entire-weekend schools at BIR every year, and they are about $300 for a whole weekend. I don't think you'll find a better deal on solid track time with excellent instruction anywhere. They're usually happy to have non-club members run with them if there's space (you may pay a bit extra, but no big deal.. its still a good price). The Audi, Vette, and several other clubs also run at BIR and usually allow non-club members.

$300 is less money than 99% of what people bolt onto their car, but a weekend of track time at BIR makes you significantly faster than any bolt on you could do. The #1 part on a car that needs upgrading is the Nut Behind the Wheel

do you use your own vehicle?

$300 is less money than 99% of what people bolt onto their car, but a weekend of track time at BIR makes you significantly faster than any bolt on you could do. The #1 part on a car that needs upgrading is the Nut Behind the Wheel

The cop was pretty pissed off at me so wrote me a "too fast for conditions" ticket, which i contested in court via self representation.

During cross examination I caught the officer in several logical contradictions but the judge found me guilty anyway. this was after i sat through a few other trials of highschool girls running stop signs, running off the road, etc due to ice that got reduced sentences/fines. One girl damn-near t-boned a cop because she couldn't stop for a stop sign due to ice.

At no time did i do anything illegal according to the letter or the spirit of the law - i stayed in my lane, the officer did not read any speed on me, the officer admitted he was travelling faster than me, the officer couldn't tell me what speed was "too fast" or what speed would ahve been "acceptable", etc etc.

The subjectivity of the law is such that the cops and the judge have pretty good latitude in what they charge you with and convict you of. This was the only time i've tried self representation. In future tickets where I feel contesting them is necessary, I'll hire a lawyer. In the last jurisdiction i lived in, legal representation was required to get a favorable outcome.. you could make the same argument a lawyer would but if you hadn't paid into the bar-members-association club (i.e. you weren't a lawyer) you were guilty, simple as that.

Luckily in Fargo the moving violation structure is pretty lenient.. you guys dont realize how good you've got it.. 2 pts and below is non reportable to insurance.. points decay very rapidly... and the fines are pretty low.

As far as younger drivers causing more trouble.. I'm still under 30 but a few of you guys might call me "grandpa" if we ever met All the usual caveats about generalizations notwithstanding, older/more experienced drivers tend to drive better than younger/less experienced ones. Inattentiveness is a problem for sure, but then most inattentive drivers do not push the performance envelope of thier own or their vehicles capabilities. When they do screw up, it tends to be less dramatic.

A number of studies of drivers and driving (focusing on race drivers vs the normal popoulation ) have shown that people like michael schumacher do not have considerably different reflexes than you or me... top talent in competitive driving comes down primarily to experience and intelligence, not natural ability or physical differentiation.

As is repeated over and over at the track... "there is no such thing as a natural". Anyone that thinks they were born God-of-Driving, or 2 years after getting a license and having a pizza delivery job is going to be running F1 in a year or two will typically get their ass handed to them and go home stuffed with humble pie after going to the track... assuming they keep the shiny side up all weekend and go home at all.

The other mitigating factor is that for younger drivers, the "newness" and the desire to impress or draw attention aggrivate the already volitale situation. I don't mean to speak poorly towards anyone in particular here; when i was younger i did a lot of stupid things because i just didn't know better and didn't have the longer-term perspective that I have now. I still drive very very hard but with age comes a steadily rising waistline and a bit of wisdom about when, where, and to waht extent you should engage in tomfoolery on the street:) I don't mind admitting that i've grossly violated the posted limit on a public road somewhere near town, but in the same breath i curse people that roll through my neighborhood at 40mph when the posted 25 is probably too fast given how many street-parked cars and children there are.

At some point you get a good feel for how "exposed" you are as a driver to possible LEO activity. If you don't feel confident you can be screwing around without a cop seeing you, that probably also means that there are too many other cars, houses, etc that you really shouldn't be screwing around anyway. In an empty wide open space there are no where for cops to hide, which means there are no places for kids to hide either, so opening up the car is probably fine.

All that said - if you get charged with a violation that is more than 2 pts, it will be reported to your insurance carrier and that is the real screwjob... that premium spike will not decay for 3-5 years, depending on carrier. Any moving iolation that is more than 2 points you should contest via legal representation.. even if it is a few hundred bucks to retain a lawyer. When you amortize the cost of the lawyer over the 3-5 years of increased premiums (in addition to the marginal fine) you come out ahead by trying to fight it.

Never mind that by fighting it you cost the city government money, which dilutes the "profitability" of speed enforcement programs, which, based on places i've lived, are a lot more about a government money grab than keeping people safe (why is it that cops park on our 3 lane empty interstates looking for speeders, but not in residential neighborhoods that have through-streets?)

Everyone that loves cars owes it to themselves to try and get some real driver training at a proper track. You'll drive safer on the street as a result, and you can have a load of fun without any worry about hurting others or your driving record

94NDTA wrote:
Meh, so far, I have no beef with the local cops (knock on wood).

x 2

i.e.: young people drive faster and when they have to swerve around a thirty-something women who just merged in front of him (at 25mph in the left lane of the interstate with the wrong turn signal on) the accident is more severe due to speed and is then placed in the youths lap.

Anyway cops target young drivers because it's an easy mark and very rarely do you see a 16-26 year old get a lawyer and persue justice.

Hell, my own parents wouldn't even believe it wasn't my fault the last time i was <u>rear ended</u>

2.5RS wrote:
that means you were not were the party was....

Haha, apparently not.

PSiedTSi wrote:
When did that happen? We were down there this weekend and it wasn't too wild.
that means you were not were the party was....

Stormwalker wrote:
It could be much worse. Could be dealing with St. Paul police on University Ave on Saturday nights. They're starting to pull tasers on people at Porky's evidently.

When did that happen? We were down there this weekend and it wasn't too wild.

torbs wrote:
that's cause you dont drive an import...doy
That is a load of BULL SHIT! I'm so sick of people whining about the local police singling out imports. They single out younger people regardless of if they are in a Camaro or an Eclipse. Why? Because younger people as a whole drive much more recklessly than mature adults.

torbs wrote:
that's cause you dont drive an import...doy

I don't get pulled over either, and I guarantee I'm louder than 99% of the cars on the road in fargo.

torbs wrote:
that's cause you dont drive an import...doy
I use to think that was the case, but the more stories I hear about loud/fast domestics being pulled over, the less I think that is true. The only time I get pulled over is if I drive like I shouldn't

94NDTA wrote:
Meh, so far, I have no beef with the local cops (knock on wood).

that's cause you dont drive an import...doy

heath wrote:
i got pulled over once because a cop, (direct quote) "heard me drag racing". this was across the I-29 bridge. So he gave me a 300$ drag racing ticket. I called the city prosecutor and he said (direct quote) " ya, we got nothing on you." so it was dropped to speed care required, 60bux, no points. And all it took was a phone call.

speed care required is actually a 2 point ticket (i know bc i've gotten the BS this 2 times...awhile back tho)...unless it was a special circumstance, then it may be no pts.

youngin2nr wrote:
So, here is the story. I am pulling up to a stop light when a Dodge Dakota is power stalling it, smoke rolling off the tires with a big cloud hovering the stoplight. Then i see a cop drive by in front of me (me thinking the cop is chasing the dakota). Then, the light turns green so i go. I get about a block ahead onto 10th Ave E. when i see the same cop flying around the corner with his lights flashing. So im thinking WTF?!?. He pulls me over and trys to blame the whole burnout thing on me. I looked him right in the face and said " Are you crazy? My car is front wheel drive, and my e-brake doesnt even work. It is impossible for me to do that." He responds with " Any car can do a burnout." Then he goes on about how everything on my car is illeagal such as lights, exhaust, blinkers etc.... Then on top of it all he goes "Do you have an air freshener in your car? Cuz it smells like alcohol." Than i said "No i dont have an air freshener and i havent been drinking." He then tells me to step out of the car along with my passenger. As im getting out of my car he tells me to take my hands out of my pockets like im going to stab him or something. Then he gives me and my passenger a breathalizer. Which we passed of course. But as i was taking a breathalizer i was shaking. So he asked me if i had been doing any drugs. I said no its the medication I take. He shrugs it off gives me my license back and says have a good night. On top of it all it was just BS.

Sorry, I had to vent a bit.

hate to say this, but that's west fargo for you!