Carb of EFI
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DaveH wrote:
Good grief you guys... Top fuelers don't have carbs, they are mechanically fuel injected. Basically they are EFI without the E.YA!! So THERE!!!! Put that in ur pipe and smoke it.
So really, I wasn't sure about that so I assumed they were carbed cuz Ethan posted it as such. Shame on me for not being better versed in top fuel cars and also for believing him.:o
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Didn't I say that?
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I suppose each application would have a different outcome, but on sprint cars (something I know from experience) just going from an alcohol carb to a hilborn injection (mechanical) is right around a 75 horse increase at upper rpm(6500-9000) but at lower rpm around 3000 (which besides idling and warm up sprint cars never run at) they are close in hp, a slight edge for the injection
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2wheeler wrote:
Ok, since everyone on here knows everything.....is 6.5s good enough?no, cause top fuel drags dont have a problem running into the 4's...
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you asked if it was fast enough, and i said no because it obviously cant compete with non carbed race cars, just like you on only two wheels. kthankxbye
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92BlackTT wrote:
you asked if it was fast enough, and i said no because it obviously cant compete with non carbed race cars, just like you on only two wheels. kthankxbye
very good apples to apples comparison(TF v. PS)...congratsplease list the other "non-carbed"(good way around EFI) racecars PS can't compete with. Oh, and make em N/A too.
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2wheeler wrote:
Aw Wes, someday you'll get yer own sack and be able to stop riding Dave's.
Now, where did that come from? I stated the truth. I really wasn't sure so I did assume you were right. But I did know that there were tight regulations and limitations as to what they run.
Now, How is that riding the old mans sack? -
2wheeler wrote:
very good apples to apples comparison(TF v. PS)...congratsplease list the other "non-carbed"(good way around EFI) racecars PS can't compete with. Oh, and make em N/A too.
you cant compare cars from class to class, hence the reason they have classes. I was simply stating that no, carbed cars arnt fast ENOUGH because there is better technology available to do so. There is no way a carb is the most efficient way of tuning a car or making power when you are talking about milliseconds and pluse widths with fuel injection. Matching a jet to airflow pressure etc etc may be thought of as a science, but it is superior to injection only in simplicity. Just the way you are sitting on a computer instead of tapping out strings of dots to communicate with all of us.
dont automatically think i was trying to be a dickhead with my first post. Not everybody on here is out to get you.
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Alright I'll ask how many on here have tuned a carb or ran a carb for any lenght of time? If you preperly tune them and not just jets, accelerator pumps, cams, discharge nozzles main body,bleed off screws etc they make great power! Bang for the buck take two identical cars give each person five grand one with efi one carbed who will win? With a carb you buy a good carb and intake, efi its t-body, injectors, maf, intake, well you know dam expensive that stuff is. Carb car will win. I also think a car with a carb vs. efi same power carb will always pull better on the top end. Just wy two cents.
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I'd be willing to take that bet. It's not all about V8's here. I would love to spend 5k on hp alone on my FI engine in the Miata. I would get maybe 200hp to the crank on a carbed side draft set up. And thats pushing it. But having FI allows alot more room for improvement (in my case). That would easily be enough $$ to boost the everluvin shit outa my engine (which becomes very hard to do properly in a carbed set up). Including an AEM. Now that's just in this situation. Obviously there are other senarios that what you say would apply such as a late 80's gm 5.7 tuned port vs the same engine with a well prepped holley carb/intake set up. It is alot EASIER to make quick power with a carb there. But at what cost? Obviously driveability and efficiency can suffer (not saying it will). Ultimately, each situation isn't goin to need the same equipment nor yield the same results. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. But in alot of cases, the carb has seen its day in the spotlight.
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weshole wrote:
Now, where did that come from? I stated the truth. I really wasn't sure so I did assume you were right. But I did know that there were tight regulations and limitations as to what they run.
Now, How is that riding the old mans sack?
Now, don't get all bent out of shape sweetie. hugs -
Now i got a question for anyone on here, not taking shots, but who has ever built a boosted carb motor? IF you have great, but i doubt that you have. My dad built a small block 350 Chevy with a Martin Turbo system and a RAYJAY Turbo. This was a carburated vehicle that was tuned very well and used as a daily driver/ snowmobile hauler. The time, money and effort it took to get that thing to the point where it ran flawlessly was absolutely retarded as dave had mentioned earlier in this thread. Had it been an EFI, that headache would have been all but gone, and 2 350 chevy blocks would not have gotten perforated in the process. Sleds are goin EFI, making more power than ever, Dirt Bikes and 4 wheelers are doing the same. Ok, so now ou wanna argue about emmisions, sounds good to me. A clean burning motor makes more efficient power. So know you want the performance on demand in a clean burning daily driver and EFI lets you do that because it is flexible and a closed loop system.
Here is your engineering lesson for the day. Think of it this way.
Closed Loop System: Oven - (EFI)
You set you oven at a temp, and it goes to the temp and stays there because the thermocouple in the oven is giving feeback to the control system telling it that it is at 400 degrees or whateverOpen Loop System: Stove Top - (Carb)
You set the stove top to either low, low-medium, high, and so on. There is no discrete temp that you set it at, and depending on the current state of the atmosphere is going to be different every time bcause there is no dynamic feedback that is actually telling the machine that the Stove Top is at a certain temp.So know that we know this, lets look back and see what the advantages of a carburator are ......thinkin, thinkin, thinking, thinking....NONE.
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Here... Just answer this sumple question for me. How could a carb that cannot be as exact, no matter how much money your put into it, be as efficient as a a tuned EFI system.... Why do you think SPFI is more efficent than EFI, Better timing of fuel injection, and overall MORE EXACTNESS! It's kinda like going to the bar, if the bartender uses the top that measures exactly one ounce(EFI), u'll get what you are expecting, but if they just poor shit in, maybe throw a rufie in(carb), you might get more drunk, but its not expected...
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Joel don't ever post on a technical subject again. Thanks.
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