BMW M3 swap
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Idk how deep there are, but he's had some nice cars before. All I know is it'd be sweet to pull it off, he just wanted to know how hard it would be to do and how much it would cost. The other idea was to put a different head and build the stock motor. He wants is N/A.
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Which engine is he using? S50, S52, S54? The S50/S52 swap (E36 M3) is quite popular with the E30 crowd. I haven't heard of an S54 (E46 M3) swapped E30, but I'm sure it's been done. Here are some links that might help:
http://www.theeurodepot.com/e30m50.html
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=113549 -
There is no 300 hp M3 engine. The gen-1 M3 engine was the S14, and made 200hp. That engine actually fits in the mid-80s BMW 3 series chassis (called the "E30")
The E36 M3 (95-99) had the S50US or S52US at 240hp. The S50 Euro engine was 286, and the S52 euro engine topped out at 321 hp by the time you got to Evo2 or Evo3 trim.
The E46 M3 (02-06) engine is called the S54 and makes 333hp.
The E36 M3 engine isn't really anything special - it, and any other M50/M52/S50/S52 family engine can swap into the E30 chassis and it is very commonly done. treehouseracing and zionsvilleautosport, as well as others, sell complete conversion kits complete with intstructional DVDs and all the custom parts you'd need to do the job.
The S54 conversion is a totally different ball of wax.. mostly becasue the electronics are so much newer and more advanced on that engine. They're also a hell of a lot of money and a lot more rare.
Many people have done the S50 into E30 swap and the gotchas are well understood. But that isn't 300hp unless you start with an S50 OBD1 engine (i.e. the 1995 M3 engine ONLY, or get a later year M3 engine and do an OBD1 conversion on it first), and then add the conforti OBD1 "package", which has a euro HFM, hotter cams, new shielded intake, software, and possibly a different intake manifold (i dont remember).
There are some other interesting donor choices.. for instance the M54 engine from the Z3 2.8 is 100% aluminum so is very lightweight and may fit the character of the E30 chassis better. Some people claim that the M50/S50 conversion weighs down the front end too much or changes the character of the car for the worse.
I've got an E30 track car car and my engine is stock except for headers (and i only replaced those due to rusted factory parts
These cars don't need a lot of power to be a lot of fun. What are his goals for the car?
I'm thrilled to see more BMW topics on FS
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Idk what his goals are, I just know that he wants it N/A. Whether or not he goes through with any of it I have no idea, he's just seeing what his options and will probably make a decision. I was trying to help him find out more to see if he wants to go through with it or not, I hope he does I think i'd be a fun project to work on. If anything does happen i'll keep you guys posted.
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you know if you want to get anything done on here quit posting i dont know everytime someone asks a question. it very annoying and if you really dont know then dont ask the questions. go ask him and then post back what the people are asking so they can actually help. And yes i also vote for the 2.8 m54 due to the aspect of its extremely light weight, and they make pretty good power with a nice header and such. BUT, dont forget the LS1 swap, those make just retarded fast track cars, and the ls1/T56 is actually a hair lighter than the iron I6, and a 350hp starting point is perfect, along with the fact it will probably be the cheapest route.
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I would agree with Thrash. For NA purposes the M52 is probably going to be the best bet. If he ever went turbo, the M50 would be the better choice due to its more turbo friendly design, although as Thrash said, it's gonna be heavier. Parts are also going to be cheaper for the non-M engines as well. The S54 would be a crazy expensive swap and a wiring nightmare. I have also heard of people swapping F20Cs and SR20s into the E30 chassis.
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I generally frown on Chebby V8 swaps because
- you're going from a BMW I6 - one of the worlds smoothest engines -- to a GM OHV V8, a considerably less smooth engine
- the big-low-torque of the V8 and low redline change the character of the car. A normal BMW engine is biased slightly towards top end horsepower whilst still maintaining good torque
The m50 swap really is getting cookbook simple. And if he ever did want to go FI, TCD (turbochargingdynamics.. specializes in full turbo conversions on 80s BMWs..) is finalizing their M50 kit.. which they say will work in an M50-into-E30 swap. Expect 400hp on stock internals and a basic setup.
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Doesn't your E46 have non-factory wheels?
So much for no-mods on the BMW:)One reason i bought my E30 was so i wouldn't have to cut up my M5 for track duty. BMW's are a fanastic car to mod for speed because the chassis dynamics are so fundamentally good, the engines are so flexible, and they're extremely well made. When you consider all the weight you can drop by gutting all the luxury features out of them, they're almost the perfect track-rat conversion.
Comparatively, Honda makes exactly 4 interesting cars for North America:
- NSX -- too expensive, and cutting one of these up is a sin..
- S2000 -- not much to dislike, except that it's a soft top
- the IT-R -- pure drivers car, inspite of being Wrong Wheel Drive. Too bad they spend more time getting stolen than they do in your garage
- the CRX -- anything this light is a good time, even if its WWD, and even if you do have to rebuild the entire car with parts from newer/better Hondas to make it worth driving...
And all of those cars are "reasonably" rare these days (and around here)
On the other hand, every BMW ever sold on this continent is either RWD or RWD-biased AWD. Every single one of them is fun to drive -- even the big ones. Every single one of them since 1984 has 4 wheel disc brakes (and pretty damn good brakes, at that). All of the "s" models had factory LSD's.
We've even had a 7 series at the track before.
Any BMW you see besides a 7, X3, or X5, is a great starting point for a track car. The BMW club is very active at track events all over the place, and the events are extremely well run.
Modding for "modding's sake" or appearance mods are mostly dumb IMO, and if that's what you're talking about, then i agree. But modding to go faster is fantastic, and BMWs are a great starting point if you want to go faster. The cars are quite good out of the box, there are easy to get parts when you run out of car, and there is a great club organiaztion that helps the driver catch up to the car at all stages of driver OR car development
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ok, that will be the S50USB32.
That means "S50 engine" (E36 m3), "US version", 3.2 liter displacement.
The 95 m3 had the S50USB30, which was 3.0 liter. In 96 it changed to the B32 variant, with a 200cc displacement bump. This motor doesn't actually make omre power, but it has moderately more torque in some parts of the power band. The bump was needed to keep the car competitive under the 96 and later OBD2 rules.
A 98 would be an OBD2 engine, which limits your tuning possibilities a little. It may also complicate the retrofit.
An OBD1 retrofit kit is available for the OBD2 motors.
check out the following:
http://www.treehouseracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=34
http://www.treehouseracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=32
http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/store/shop.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=6134&Category_Code=CKE
These guys have a lot of stuff you need, including instructional software for every stage of the conversion.
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