No more BP's is North Dakota
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tjamz;199810 wrote:
I have run E85 in my non-E85 ready car (I did tune for it though) for a couple of years now (since 2005 I think) with no ill results.Not true anymore...hasn't been true since the 80's really
Prove it...give me evidence not some statement.North Dakota doesn't subsidize Ethanol anymore, and its still ~$.40/gallon cheaper than petro
Bullshit...the FEDERAL government subsidizes it still and the farmers are first in line to receive aid. It costs more money to produce ethanol than regular gasoline. More transportation and refining costsBurns, if anything, slower (Higher Octane), you just need more ethanol to get the same amount of miles as gasoline (lower BTU's....for example, you need ~30% more E85 to travel the same distance as you would with regular gasoline). However, since it is a higher octane, you can run a bit leaner than normal and still avoid knock. I'm sure Bill or Andy can chime in a bit more on this subject. Bottom line it takes more than regular gasoline which offsets the cost savings.
Also, with Ethanol, there is no need for gas-line antifreeze (Heat) to keep the lines from freezing.
I dont agree...but the one positive is it is a cleaner fuel that does not pollute as much. I may be wrong, but am guessing that Andy and Bill would rather use regular race fuel if it was as cheap as normal pump gas.
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I agree with brian ethenol costs a shitload to produce
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SmitEvo;199829 wrote:
I dont agree...but the one positive is it is a cleaner fuel that does not pollute as much. I may be wrong, but am guessing that Andy and Bill would rather use regular race fuel if it was as cheap as normal pump gas.i would guess that they would still use it seeing as its 105 octane pump gas. its cheaper than normal gas becuase of the subsidies right now but when its over and theres more places producing it it will be the same price as normal fossil fuels. the only reason most cars get worse gas mileage off of ethanol is that its got 67% the potential energy and the engines that are runngin them are also setup to run gasoline. jack up the compression and add some timing to that same motor( higher octane) and youll get much more power and mileage out of it.
ethanol is also close to a ZERO emissions fuel becuase the plants that are used to make it use up CO2 to grow , and then gives it off when burned. it also lowers our dependacy on foreign fuels. by lowering our use of fossil fuels and using ethanol were also decreasing its demand which can slowy lower the price. not only does it help OUR economy around here, not to mention the fact that the main point of using it is that its RENEWABLE.its not going to do shit to your lines except clean them (research), theres no reason to hate on ethanol
here a psht, there psht, everywhere a psht psht
PVC SQUAD MEMBER #2- 95 CIVIC EX- DD 320whp on a mustang dyno
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SPANISH-RICE;199855 wrote:
i would guess that they would still use it seeing as its 105 octane pump gas. its cheaper than normal gas becuase of the subsidies right now but when its over and theres more places producing it it will be the same price as normal fossil fuels. the only reason most cars get worse gas mileage off of ethanol is that its got 67% the potential energy and the engines that are runngin them are also setup to run gasoline. jack up the compression and add some timing to that same motor( higher octane) and youll get much more power and mileage out of it.
ethanol is also close to a ZERO emissions fuel becuase the plants that are used to make it use up CO2 to grow , and then gives it off when burned. it also lowers our dependacy on foreign fuels. by lowering our use of fossil fuels and using ethanol were also decreasing its demand which can slowy lower the price. not only does it help OUR economy around here, not to mention the fact that the main point of using it is that its RENEWABLE.its not going to do shit to your lines except clean them (research), theres no reason to hate on ethanol
yes it takes DECADES to ruin rubber lines, I stand corrected. Sorry Tjamz. I agree that it is supposed cleaner and it will lower our demand from other countries for oil by 10%, but it is not worth the cost to produce. Read this article...
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm
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SmitEvo;199859 wrote:
yes it takes DECADES to ruin rubber lines, I stand corrected. Sorry Tjamz. I agree that it is supposed cleaner and it will lower our demand from other countries for oil by 10%, but it is not worth the cost to produce. Read this article...http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm
not worth the cost to produce? it practically makes it self, the biomass left over after creating ethanol can be burned and used to power the plants that make it, brazil's done it with sugar cane for years. brazil is one of the only countries that is completly fuel independent with its own ethanol production and fossil fuel mining. and in brazil its cheaper to produce sugar cane ethanol and its still very competive in price there, because they care enough about it to actually put some R&D behind it. there just arent enough places making it yet. youll be signing a different tune in 50 years when were practically running out of fossil fuels and you have to pay out the ass for a gallon of fossil fuel. the fact that its more expensive to make NOW should hardly out way the benefits of using a clean burning and RENEWABLE "race" fuel.
here a psht, there psht, everywhere a psht psht
PVC SQUAD MEMBER #2- 95 CIVIC EX- DD 320whp on a mustang dyno
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dind ding ding!!!! we have a winner!!!
and for those who add the cost of producing corn into the equation of making ethanol.... guess what.... we as farmers are going to produce it and sell it.... no matter who it goes to....
ethanol is the future.... just get used to it
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Corn based ethanol is nowhere near as efficient as switchgrass/cane based. I can agree there. Do you honestly think that crude oil isn't subsidized substantially? How about the multi-billion dollar battleships that escort tankers in and out of the Persian Gulf? Protection is a subsidy, even if it is indirect. Add to that the numerous gov't contracts that go to oil companies? For those that say the American farmer should not be subsidized, I think you are crazy! First of all, having a food source grown here is better than being at the will of another country to export it to us....we've already seen what happens when we rely on foreign sources for energy, lets not make that same mistake with food/renewable energy.
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I personally think burning food as fuel for our cars is the wrong direction to take. I'm all for Hydrogen fuel cell technology though. I think that is the answer to our problems. Still will need to make it affordable though. I guess once they figure it out, then a gallon of water will cost $4.00.
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Parker;199899 wrote:
dind ding ding!!!! we have a winner!!!and for those who add the cost of producing corn into the equation of making ethanol.... guess what.... we as farmers are going to produce it and sell it.... no matter who it goes to....
ethanol is the future.... just get used to it
I saw an article in one of the new import magazines. I believe it was indy cars that now run E98 for fuel. Its supposed to be better than what they were using before for race gas. The only reason why the aren't running straight ethanol was because it would get taxed under liqour laws and they had to put additives in it to prevent people from drinking it...
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they have to "denature" it from the plant once its made so people dont try chuggin the shit. mmm moonshine
here a psht, there psht, everywhere a psht psht
PVC SQUAD MEMBER #2- 95 CIVIC EX- DD 320whp on a mustang dyno
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SPANISH-RICE;199867 wrote:
not worth the cost to produce? it practically makes it self, the biomass left over after creating ethanol can be burned and used to power the plants that make it, brazil's done it with sugar cane for years. brazil is one of the only countries that is completly fuel independent with its own ethanol production and fossil fuel mining. and in brazil its cheaper to produce sugar cane ethanol and its still very competive in price there, because they care enough about it to actually put some R&D behind it. there just arent enough places making it yet. youll be signing a different tune in 50 years when were practically running out of fossil fuels and you have to pay out the ass for a gallon of fossil fuel. the fact that its more expensive to make NOW should hardly out way the benefits of using a clean burning and RENEWABLE "race" fuel.In 50 years I would hope that we would not be dependent on fossil fuels and would be utilizing hydrogen fuel cells. You wont change my mind and your entitled to your opinion. With all the farmers changing to corn instead of other crops, it raises the prices on them because of the less supply. Obviously the farmers are going to produce the crop that gives them the best profit margin. So instead of producing more food we produce ethanol. Raises prices of food around the nation. Either way, I will agree to disagree...
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as far as im concerened, ethanol makes me more money.... it drives the price of everything up from wheat to beans... so im going to plan ahead to make more money.... and plus hydrogen is quite a ways off, but we should see it more and more in the future.... its just going to be hard to get people away from the pump and into hydrogen powered cars....
but anyway.... horay for money!!!!!!
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SmitEvo;200021 wrote:
In 50 years I would hope that we would not be dependent on fossil fuels and would be utilizing hydrogen fuel cells. You wont change my mind and your entitled to your opinion.Hydrogen fuel cells... el, oh, el.
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Parker;200026 wrote:
ethanol makes me more money....Yeah, for now; wait until the subsidies wear off when people start to wake up to the fact that it's a shitty, uneconomical fuel - at best.
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reshalghoul;200308 wrote:
Yeah, for now; wait until the subsidies wear off when people start to wake up to the fact that it's a shitty, uneconomical fuel - at best.Hmmm....shitty....like so shitty that every (correct me if I'm wrong here) car in the Dyno comp at SEMA was running E85? So shitty that many forms of racing use ethanol? Is it the perfect fuel? No, but it is a step in the right direction and a step towards lowering our dependence on foreign oil.....all while helping the AMERICAN farmer in the process.
Wait until oil is not subsidized and the results will be the same for that.
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