Tax Plans
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Actually for my parents to have gotten stimulus money from me I would have had to have been 18 or younger...
I already did plenty of looking and asking around to see if we should refile or whatever so we could get the money. They would have had to refile without me as a dependent and then have me refile and have not been claimed as a dependent...wasn't worth it to us. They also might have earned more than 150 between the two of them, I'm not exactly sure as the last time I knew what my dad made was about 6 years ago and I've never seen what my mom made.
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Parker;242413 wrote:
yeah we should tax people making more... great idea... like small businesses... getting taxed more would mean they have more money to create** more **jobs right?No, it's not a good plan, which is why even the democrats in Washington don't think that Bush's tax cuts will ever go away.
BUT, the point I'm trying to make to all the Ron Paul nut swingers on here is that this is EXACTLY what Ron Paul wants to do. Get rid of individual income tax (along with spending cuts....cut 1/3 of the budget...which is a good thing); and then have the corporate tax and all the other taxes that are part of doing business stay. Yet, everybody seems on board with this socialist idea. Why not tax the individuals at a higher rater and get rid of corporate and other taxes for businesses? That seems the most fair....right?
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Well...not paying required taxes is illegal...so you could make an argument that paying is patriotic in that you are being a legal citizen of this country, earning a wage and paying the taxes as required under the laws of the land....but that would be a stretch.
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A few points:
arguing that Obama won't get all of what he wants isn't a resounding endorsement of Obama. The guy wants to do the concept of America atrocious harm. Have you picked up on the fact that he doesn't talk about the "American Dream" -- he talks about the "American Promise". The difference is intentional.
The supreme court justice point is a salient one. We just barely kept the 2nd amendment by 1 vote in the recent Heller vs. DC decision. Obama is about as anti-gun as they come, and if he has the opportunity to stack the court with Obamunists, I fear that in a few more years we'll be voting with (illegal) bullets instead of ballots.
Did you pay attention to "Joe the Plumber" -- and Obama's admonition to "spread the wealth?"
Data from the Reagan administration forward has shown that when personal income tax is lowered, the government actually collects more income tax revenue. People spend less effort trying to dodge taxes, and the extra money in peoples hands doesn't just rot away going to fruitless uses.. it moves through the economy lubricating everything. If your goal is to have the government get MORE money out of people, LOWER the federal income tax.
Regarding the difference between taxing people vs. taxing businesses -- a business is a purely legal construct. Individuals form businesses as entities to protect their individuality, i.e. their home, their cars, etc, from risk of seizure in the event of a business failure. We've tweaked our legal system to reward entrepreneurship by limiting risk to PERSONs by insulating them with the legal constructs loosely called "businesses".
When I tax a person, I am taking money from a real, living, human being. Directly. When I tax a business, one might argue that this is how we bankroll the limited liability designed into the system.
Of course, lower business taxes are better than higher ones, because it gives the government less money to commit evil, and gives business owners more money to provide actual value. But if one has to decide between stealing 1/3rd of the income of a person, vs. stealing some percentage of the profits of a business, the latter seems less deleterious and more plausibly justifiable.
That said, it is my understanding that the original financial support for the federal government was entirely based on foreign tarriffs. Chuck Baldwin wants to return to this sort of system, IIRC.
People supporting Obama this time around are getting confused. Lots of people dislike McCain for lots of reasons, but they all boil down to "McCain isn't doing a good enough job of being what he's calling himself. He's not the candidate he's supposed to be. He's not a real republican. He's playing politics and changing his story as the opinions change"
But obama is something else. Obama is being completely true to his agenda. The problem is that his agena, his worldview, his platform.. is wrong. It might be right for a lot of places, but it isn't American, and it isn't constitutional.
John McCain might fail to take us far enough in the right direction.
Everything Obama does will be a move in the wrong direction.
I'd like to reiterate that everyone that hasn't done so yet should read "Free to Choose" and "Capitalism and Freedom", both by Milton Friedman.
Milton Friedman was a ukranian-jewish immigrant to the USA. He came of age during the depression, helped design the modern IRS in 1942. He won the nobel prize in economics for his theory of the consumption function. He was an economic advisor to presidents Nixon and Regan, and Barry Goldwater who started the republican turnaround in the 60s. He wrote the first comprehensive history of US monetary policy. Unlike some jackass with an opinion, Friedman was an instrumental genius economist who did real work in the US goverment of tremendous significance.
You can read what he has to say on the role of government in the economy, and freedom, and how the two are linked. It's easy to read and easy to understand.
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thrash;242547 wrote:
A few points:arguing that Obama won't get all of what he wants isn't a resounding endorsement of Obama. The guy wants to do the concept of America atrocious harm. Have you picked up on the fact that he doesn't talk about the "American Dream" -- he talks about the "American Promise". The difference is intentional.
The supreme court justice point is a salient one. We just barely kept the 2nd amendment by 1 vote in the recent Heller vs. DC decision. Obama is about as anti-gun as they come, and if he has the opportunity to stack the court with Obamunists, I fear that in a few more years we'll be voting with (illegal) bullets instead of ballots.
Did you pay attention to "Joe the Plumber" -- and Obama's admonition to "spread the wealth?"
Data from the Reagan administration forward has shown that when personal income tax is lowered, the government actually collects more income tax revenue. People spend less effort trying to dodge taxes, and the extra money in peoples hands doesn't just rot away going to fruitless uses.. it moves through the economy lubricating everything. If your goal is to have the government get MORE money out of people, LOWER the federal income tax.
Regarding the difference between taxing people vs. taxing businesses -- a business is a purely legal construct. Individuals form businesses as entities to protect their individuality, i.e. their home, their cars, etc, from risk of seizure in the event of a business failure. We've tweaked our legal system to reward entrepreneurship by limiting risk to PERSONs by insulating them with the legal constructs loosely called "businesses".
When I tax a person, I am taking money from a real, living, human being. Directly. When I tax a business, one might argue that this is how we bankroll the limited liability designed into the system.
Of course, lower business taxes are better than higher ones, because it gives the government less money to commit evil, and gives business owners more money to provide actual value. But if one has to decide between stealing 1/3rd of the income of a person, vs. stealing some percentage of the profits of a business, the latter seems less deleterious and more plausibly justifiable.
That said, it is my understanding that the original financial support for the federal government was entirely based on foreign tarriffs. Chuck Baldwin wants to return to this sort of system, IIRC.
People supporting Obama this time around are getting confused. Lots of people dislike McCain for lots of reasons, but they all boil down to "McCain isn't doing a good enough job of being what he's calling himself. He's not the candidate he's supposed to be. He's not a real republican. He's playing politics and changing his story as the opinions change"
But obama is something else. Obama is being completely true to his agenda. The problem is that his agena, his worldview, his platform.. is wrong. It might be right for a lot of places, but it isn't American, and it isn't constitutional.
John McCain might fail to take us far enough in the right direction.
Everything Obama does will be a move in the wrong direction.
I'd like to reiterate that everyone that hasn't done so yet should read "Free to Choose" and "Capitalism and Freedom", both by Milton Friedman.
Milton Friedman was a ukranian-jewish immigrant to the USA. He came of age during the depression, helped design the modern IRS in 1942. He won the nobel prize in economics for his theory of the consumption function. He was an economic advisor to presidents Nixon and Regan, and Barry Goldwater who started the republican turnaround in the 60s. He wrote the first comprehensive history of US monetary policy. Unlike some jackass with an opinion, Friedman was an instrumental genius economist who did real work in the US goverment of tremendous significance.
You can read what he has to say on the role of government in the economy, and freedom, and how the two are linked. It's easy to read and easy to understand.
Good post as usual thrash...again, in principle, I agree with what you said for the most part.
Just clarifying a couple of things though. You made a comment that thinking that obama's plan won't go through is showing that the candidates weakness. I'd say that it not going through is a sign that the checks/balances system in this country works.
I'm willling to bet that when Obama is president, you won't see a new AWB go through. It wasn't very popular the first time, so I don't see it passing this time....there might be a lighthearted attempt at it, but I don't see it passing, nor has Obama put it on his agenda to my knowledge.
If conservatives acted like conservatives, they'd run away with every election. The problem is that most of them are good at double talking and spending money like democrats...and yes, I know you have stated that lowering tax percentages increases tax revenue...which may very well be true, but to say that people won't spend the time trying to find every deduction/loophole is insane....if I can get more of my tax money back, I'm going to find every friggen loophole in the system....regardless of the lower tax rate.
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