e36 m3
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rex: sexy i know, i heart it.
del: why?
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IMO, The E36 M3 is the best all-around drivers car in America. Certainly at the 10k price range they're going for, but maybe at any price.
The E46 non-M cars do not compare. Ignore Jim's advice unless looks and "newness" is all you care about -- the E36 M3 is faster and a better handling car than any of the non-M E46 cars. The E46 M3 is also over 400 lbs heavier, and usually 2x the cost. For that you get a heavier car where maintenance is considerably more expensive. The only approved oil in the S54 engine is Castrol 10w60, which is $11/qt.
The E36 M3 is the only "affordable" M car... its engine is much simpler than all of the other M cars, but it still goes pretty well. Out of the box it is faster than any honda except the NSX. You'll get a car that runs a 5 and a half 0-60 time bone stock, but has heated leather seats (if you want).
I won't comment on any of the specific cars in this thread, but if you want an awesome daily driver, awesome car at the track or auto-X, and a (these days) affordable ride, it's pretty hard to go wrong with an E36 M3.
You can find one that's really ratty and will need a lot of work, or one that's been well maintained and gone through, and the prices won't be too different. Find an indy bmw mechanic to go through any car you buy. It will save you thousands in the first year.
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Here's the one you need to get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR4vVnGSoa0Sterling Archer: Oh my god! You killed a hooker!
Cyril Figgis: Call girl!
Sterling Archer: No Cyril! When they're dead they're just hookers!
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thrash;256833 wrote:
IMO, The E36 M3 is the best all-around drivers car in America. Certainly at the 10k price range they're going for, but maybe at any price.The E46 non-M cars do not compare. Ignore Jim's advice unless looks and "newness" is all you care about -- the E36 M3 is faster and a better handling car than any of the non-M E46 cars. The E46 M3 is also over 400 lbs heavier, and usually 2x the cost. For that you get a heavier car where maintenance is considerably more expensive. The only approved oil in the S54 engine is Castrol 10w60, which is $11/qt.
The E36 M3 is the only "affordable" M car... its engine is much simpler than all of the other M cars, but it still goes pretty well. Out of the box it is faster than any honda except the NSX. You'll get a car that runs a 5 and a half 0-60 time bone stock, but has heated leather seats (if you want).
I won't comment on any of the specific cars in this thread, but if you want an awesome daily driver, awesome car at the track or auto-X, and a (these days) affordable ride, it's pretty hard to go wrong with an E36 M3.
You can find one that's really ratty and will need a lot of work, or one that's been well maintained and gone through, and the prices won't be too different. Find an indy bmw mechanic to go through any car you buy. It will save you thousands in the first year.
:rolleyes:
E46 Non-M cars DO compare; a 330 ZHP is virtually identical in performance and price. A base 328 or 330 will easily keep up with suspension and be almost the same cost. Yes on an E36, everything is cheaper. Yes its lighter; but its old, its dated, its overpriced.
E36 M = 240hp
E46 M = 333hpE36 Curb Weight: 3,219 lb
E46 Curb Weight: 3,415 lbSo yes, 200 (not 400) heavier (Much more luxurious, better looking and oh yeah 10 years newer)...
E46 0-60 in 4.5 Seconds
E36 0-60 in 6 SecondsSo tell me how, other then things being cheaper and easier to work on, is it better?
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The only advantage the E36 has over the E46 is its weight. It feels lighter to throw around the corners, but that's about it. If you are looking to upgrade in power, the S54 engine has a lot more potential. It can get up to 1000HP if you have the dough.
If you are going to spend 12k on a 100k mile E36, you might as well save a few grand more and get a E46.
The E46 M3 is affordable, don't let this guy scare you. Find a BMW tech that's willing to do inspections for you on the side. Other stuff can be DIY. There is a wealth of information on this site. www.m3forum.net
Good luck man.
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kktvr4;256839 wrote:
The only advantage the E36 has over the E46 is its weight. It feels lighter to throw around the corners, but that's about it. If you are looking to upgrade in power, the S54 engine has a lot more potential. It can get up to 1000HP if you have the dough.If you are going to spend 12k on a 100k mile E36, you might as well save a few grand more and get a E46.
The E46 M3 is affordable, don't let this guy scare you. Find a BMW tech that's willing to do inspections for you on the side. Other maintenance can be DIY. Good luck man.
^ he owns an E46 M3 btw; And this is coming from a person who loved E36's
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im debating on my next car in the spring being an 328ci, i love the way those cars look
here a psht, there psht, everywhere a psht psht
PVC SQUAD MEMBER #2- 95 CIVIC EX- DD 320whp on a mustang dyno
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Out of the box, the E36 M3 is faster than any non-M E46. Including the ZHP. Faster in a straight line, faster around the track.
I'm not knocking the E46 and especially not the ZHP. Between an M car and a non-M car, it's just a different experience.
Are there any E46 M3s you'd actually want to buy under 20k? If not, they're at least twice as expensive as an E36.
There has always been a difference in the M and non-M versions of the cars. A sport model E46, even with ZHP, isn't going to give you the same driving experience as the E36 M3.
Obviously the E46 M3 is going to be faster than any of these, but you're going to pay for it. And maintenance IS going to cost more than the E36.
There's a good reason the E36 M3 is one of the most tracked cars in the US (tracked as in "taken to the race track"). It's really the sweet spot in a lot of ways.
I guess all I can say is to drive a few different cars and see what you like.
If I were going to go to the track a lot, there'd be no question -- I'd get an E36 M3. If i wanted the extra 93hp the US model is missing vs the E46, I could get it for less than the cost difference of getting an E46. And I'd start out 400 lbs lighter, with a better developed aftermarket, and where wheels, tires, brakes, and everything else is cheaper.
(actually, I bought an E30 325is and gutted it to go to the track, because that's another factor of 10 cheaper, and track cars should be cheap because they get hurt)
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Also Jim, none of the E36's you posted were M3s, unless they did down-grade bumper swaps
Of course I agree with you that the E46 looks newer and nicer. My point was always and continues to be that if you care about the way the car feels and drives, that the E36 M3 is going to be superior to the non-M E46 cars. The E46 M3 will be faster but will cost much more to acquire and to maintain.
I apologize for suggesting people "ignore Jim's advice" as that is overly argumentative and presumably contributed to your defensive/derisive response.
I'd hope that you might be willing to concede some of the points I make. I don't know how much track experience you have in various BMWs. I'll assume that you have no DIY experience on multi-throttle BMW engines and the costs involved.
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An Audi B6 or B7 S4 (2002ish -> present) might be worth considering. It's a 340hp V8, manual gearbox available, more rear leg room than the E46 M3, and of course, AWD.
The E46 is a faster car, but the S4 is "adequate", AWD, and a more practical daily driver.
I was surprised at how affordable they have become.
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thrash;256863 wrote:
An Audi B6 or B7 S4 (2002ish -> present) might be worth considering. It's a 340hp V8, manual gearbox available, more rear leg room than the E46 M3, and of course, AWD.The E46 is a faster car, but the S4 is "adequate", AWD, and a more practical daily driver.
I was surprised at how affordable they have become.
haha.... im looking at one right now.... -
thrash;256860 wrote:
Also Jim, none of the E36's you posted were M3s, unless they did down-grade bumper swapsOf course I agree with you that the E46 looks newer and nicer. My point was always and continues to be that if you care about the way the car feels and drives, that the E36 M3 is going to be superior to the non-M E46 cars. The E46 M3 will be faster but will cost much more to acquire and to maintain.
I apologize for suggesting people "ignore Jim's advice" as that is overly argumentative and presumably contributed to your defensive/derisive response.
I'd hope that you might be willing to concede some of the points I make. I don't know how much track experience you have in various BMWs. I'll assume that you have no DIY experience on multi-throttle BMW engines and the costs involved.
Thrash, I'm just giving you shit... I posted dirty lookin pictures of E36 compared to what I see as some of the cleanest E46's
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There are quite a few E46 M3's that are in nice condition for under 20k now... Especially since the E9x series has been around...
There's no doubt about it, if you want to track the car, E36 is going to be much cheaper and way more accessible then an E46...
But for street driving, with the added factor of comfort / luxury the E46 is def. the way to go.
thrash;256857 wrote:
Out of the box, the E36 M3 is faster than any non-M E46. Including the ZHP. Faster in a straight line, faster around the track.I'm not knocking the E46 and especially not the ZHP. Between an M car and a non-M car, it's just a different experience.
Are there any E46 M3s you'd actually want to buy under 20k? If not, they're at least twice as expensive as an E36.
There has always been a difference in the M and non-M versions of the cars. A sport model E46, even with ZHP, isn't going to give you the same driving experience as the E36 M3.
Obviously the E46 M3 is going to be faster than any of these, but you're going to pay for it. And maintenance IS going to cost more than the E36.
There's a good reason the E36 M3 is one of the most tracked cars in the US (tracked as in "taken to the race track"). It's really the sweet spot in a lot of ways.
I guess all I can say is to drive a few different cars and see what you like.
If I were going to go to the track a lot, there'd be no question -- I'd get an E36 M3. If i wanted the extra 93hp the US model is missing vs the E46, I could get it for less than the cost difference of getting an E46. And I'd start out 400 lbs lighter, with a better developed aftermarket, and where wheels, tires, brakes, and everything else is cheaper.
(actually, I bought an E30 325is and gutted it to go to the track, because that's another factor of 10 cheaper, and track cars should be cheap because they get hurt)
thrash;256860 wrote:
Also Jim, none of the E36's you posted were M3s, unless they did down-grade bumper swapsOf course I agree with you that the E46 looks newer and nicer. My point was always and continues to be that if you care about the way the car feels and drives, that the E36 M3 is going to be superior to the non-M E46 cars. The E46 M3 will be faster but will cost much more to acquire and to maintain.
I apologize for suggesting people "ignore Jim's advice" as that is overly argumentative and presumably contributed to your defensive/derisive response.
I'd hope that you might be willing to concede some of the points I make. I don't know how much track experience you have in various BMWs. I'll assume that you have no DIY experience on multi-throttle BMW engines and the costs involved.
Thras, I'm just messing around 99% of the time on the internet... don't worry about offending me.
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wow. thanks for all the informative replys!.
i think what i am going to do is if i end up getting a bimmer, its going to be a m3 for sure, and i think for now i will get a e36, just because this is my first bimmer and i want to have something to copare to if/when i do upgrade to a e46. the car will prolly never see a race track, maybe a drag strip once or a auto-x once, but thats it. mostly just a dd.
but i am seriously considering that silver e46 in that link that i posted, its here in phoenix!
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