National Health Care
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I can't wait until you or one of you close friends/family has cancer or brain surgery and dies. I'm going to go to the funeral and LAUGH MY ASS OFF and say "They deserved to die, insurance should not cover any of it."
Your ignorance is absurd.
Go talk to the dude who just had his leg amputated. Ask him if he could have afforded the bill without insurance. Willing to bet he couldn't have.
Insurance saves lives. It's the babies who get checked for everything that causes the cost of insurance to go up.
If you don't believe in insurance, what the fuck do you have a policy for? So when you get sick and almost die, that other people's money can save your life? Or will you run like a bitch to the VA and get ur free medical care?
Fuck off and die you worthless pile of white trash. End your life now before you humiliate yourself any more.
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Are you kidding stupid fuck? Insurance is GREAT, but there is a limit dude, why you getting so bent out of shape for? Cause your a dumbfuck, if you dont like my opinions, block my posts! If you dont, then fuck you! whats with all the personal attacks because of my beleifs? Boo hoo i was a giant sandy pussy and didnt join the military so i have to run them down and bitch about the VA. Guess what, i signed a contract with them and the coverage is part of it. fucking baby
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is it just me or does this link guy only talk mad shit. yet who the fuck is he?
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Grr;283323 wrote:
Are you kidding stupid fuck? Insurance is GREAT, but there is a limit dude, why you getting so bent out of shape for? Cause your a dumbfuck, if you dont like my opinions, block my posts! If you dont, then fuck you! whats with all the personal attacks because of my beleifs? Boo hoo i was a giant sandy pussy and didnt join the military so i have to run them down and bitch about the VA. Guess what, i signed a contract with them and the coverage is part of it. fucking babyI don't know about you, but a life is priceless. You cannot replace it. Therefore, there is no limit (nor should there be).
Why are you getting bent out of shape? I'm making fun of your dumb ass because you think people should just die instead of insurance helping out. Your just a complete idiot if you think people should die instead of having a 800k medical bill to save a life.
Want to know why I'm pissed? Because of ignorant jackass prick's like you who think a innocent 8 yr old girl shouldn't be alive to this very day because of her medical bill that was very high. Go fuck yourself you jewish cunt.
Oh and drifter, your just a straight up dumbfuck. Thats all.
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Link;283329 wrote:
I don't know about you, but a life is priceless. You cannot replace it. Therefore, there is no limit (nor should there be).Why are you getting bent out of shape? I'm making fun of your dumb ass because you think people should just die instead of insurance helping out. Your just a complete idiot if you think people should die instead of having a 800k medical bill to save a life.
Want to know why I'm pissed? Because of ignorant jackass prick's like you who think a innocent 8 yr old girl shouldn't be alive to this very day because of her medical bill that was very high. Go fuck yourself you jewish cunt.
Oh and drifter, your just a straight up dumbfuck. Thats all.
so who is paying for all these people to stay alive and get medical care?
because i'm pretty sure earlier gary said insurence should be used responsably. As in your policy should be that it pays for "major" incidents, not the yearly check up's and random cavity you might get.
this allows you to get a greater coverage for the chance you might have a problem that is life changing( cancer/stroke/etc..).
Now you bashing him for joining the military and getting to use the free or discounted health coverage. well thats just down right classy. i know for myself i don't disrespect people that serve, as i have not done so. so i should be greatfull for there service, as should you.
oh and link, eat me, faggot
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DrifterExtreme;283331 wrote:
so who is paying for all these people to stay alive and get medical care?because i'm pretty sure earlier gary said insurence should be used responsably. As in your policy should be that it pays for "major" incidents, not the yearly check up's and random cavity you might get.
this allows you to get a greater coverage for the chance you might have a problem that is life changing( cancer/stroke/etc..).
Read some of my earlier posts. I agree that the little random checkup's should not be covered. I already stated that before.
Whose responsibility is it to pay for these "major" medical bills? The insurance company. People pay the insurance company for their service. Now you have a contract with this company stating you will get XXX coverage.
Everyone else works the same. I am failing to see how you think because you pay the insurance for coverage that you think your paying for other people's bills. Your paying for YOUR coverage, not anyone elses. It's the insurance companies responsibility to have enough money (from all of their customers) to be able to fullfill the contract of all their customers.
Your paying the company for a SERVICE. Who gives a shit how they spend their money as long as you get the care you need when the time comes.
Now you bashing him for joining the military and getting to use the free or discounted health coverage. well thats just down right classy. i know for myself i don't disrespect people that serve, as i have not done so. so i should be greatfull for there service, as should you.
I respect him for serving in our military. Do i respect him as a person? No, I think he is an ignorant jewish prick.
oh and link, eat me, faggot
classy. that all you got? Makes you sound even more queer. Go hump your buddy Will's leg.
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lol, yeah im jewish, actually i had family in the SS back in the day, and family fighting against them. Just so you know you anti semite, im glad this is really bringing your true colors out for all to see.
Case in point of why this was brought up to begin with. He said his aunt had around $1 mil of treatment through her history with this company. Ok, so she probably paid 150k in premiums tops. Now they wont renew her policy, and your pissed????? They just gave her 850k of money that they had to take from someone else and lost their ass. Now say they DID renew her policy, and maybe its a small company and she racks up another $1mil in bills and the place has to fold and go bankrupt since they have lost so much money. Now who the fuck is she to do this to everyone else that was paying premiums and will no longer get the same treatment? Why should they have to pay an increased premium to cover the companies giant fiscal losses?? YOU gonna pay it? NO, so your just as bad as you say i am since she would now have to die, and you arent doing anything about it, see how that works? Or are you really that stupid
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Grr;283283 wrote:
I hate to be so condecending, but by reading your posts you just sound like a piece of shit welfare case to me. If your aunt has had that many problems to rack up $1mil+, sorry but she should be dead by now, and big fucking deal if you have to take the cheap pills? Can you afford the difference to buy the good ones? If not, tough shit you should be thankful that someone else is paying the $40 that THEY cost. boo hoo i want everything on someone elses dime, fuck you and pay for your own shitim not even going to touch the welfare case thing but if you knew anything about anything you would have understood what i was saying. i HAVE insurance so guess which ones the doctor prescribes me.. the EXPENSIVE ONES. do you have common sense? the generic pills a for free clinics and pfizer run hospitals, not state insured policy holders.
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Grr;283341 wrote:
lCase in point of why this was brought up to begin with. He said his aunt had around $1 mil of treatment through her history with this company. Ok, so she probably paid 150k in premiums tops. Now they wont renew her policy, and your pissed????? They just gave her 850k of money that they had to take from someone else and lost their ass. Now say they DID renew her policy, and maybe its a small company and she racks up another $1mil in bills and the place has to fold and go bankrupt since they have lost so much money. Now who the fuck is she to do this to everyone else that was paying premiums and will no longer get the same treatment? Why should they have to pay an increased premium to cover the companies giant fiscal losses?? YOU gonna pay it? NO, so your just as bad as you say i am since she would now have to die, and you arent doing anything about it, see how that works? Or are you really that stupid
im not pissed. im not on here crying because of her supposed misfortune. she will be just fine. it was an example. my point is insurance and health care in this country in general is ass backwards. pills cost ten times what they should. surgery costs ten times what it should. people die at the mercy of paperwork and for what? we pay for the cia to jet around the world but none of you are dumb enough to grap this. nothing has to even change save for EVERYONE getting a standard of care regardless. that is my only position on this. there is no reason people die in the country when they could be helped. yes even if it costs the almighty dollar. this whole stealing from you to save her bullshit is really pretty selfish and wearing thin. YOUR paying to keep bush safe from stray shoes still but your fine letting someone die. are YOU really that dense?
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24valvenotak;283344 wrote:
im not pissed. im not on here crying because of her supposed misfortune. she will be just fine. it was an example. my point is insurance and health care in this country in general is ass backwards. pills cost ten times what they should. surgery costs ten times what it should. people die at the mercy of paperwork and for what? we pay for the cia to jet around the world but none of you are dumb enough to grap this. nothing has to even change save for EVERYONE getting a standard of care regardless. that is my only position on this. there is no reason people die in the country when they could be helped. yes even if it costs the almighty dollar. this whole stealing from you to save her bullshit is really pretty selfish and wearing thin. YOUR paying to keep bush safe from stray shoes still but your fine letting someone die. are YOU really that dense?I think he's referring to me dude.
Grr, You still failed to miss why im pissed. You stated an 8 yr old girl should die because the medical bill was real high. Fuck that shit. It's the risk insurance companies take.
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Parker;283365 wrote:
in regards to dropping people because they cost too much...Are insurance companies not out too make money just like every other company? Or should they just bite the bullet and start taking massive loss's?
Whats fair?
An insurance cannot drop you because a medical bill is to high. It's the risk they take. They HAVE to pay what they are held responsible for, but can drop you AFTER they uphold their end of the contract.
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and if their contractual obligations exclude expenses >$500k for a single claim (ie surgery, hospital stay, medications, rehabilitation, etc)?
my rental policy max is 500k/occurence and my house policy is $2mil/occurence, should i expect to be able to make a claim higher than that? why is there an implied (and effective) double-standard for health insurance? -
This made me LOL
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Just for shits, I decided to look up what other businesses the US Gov't owns.
The Government owned corporations of the United States are as follows:
* Tennessee Valley Authority * Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation * Millenium challenge corporation * St. Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation * Amtrak * NPRC * Overseas Private Investment Corporation * Freddie Mac * Fannie Mae * Panama Canal Authority * Bank of America (and subsidiaries) * GMC (General Motors Corp) (and others) * AIG (American International Group) (and others) * Legal services corp. * Federal Crop Insurance Corporation * CCC (Community Commodity Corp) * Corporation for National Community Service (and all programs) * Sallie Mae (And subsidiaries) * Farmer Mac * Corporation for Public Broadcasting * Voice America * FDIC (Federal Deposit insurance corp) * SPIC -
Thought this was a pretty good read:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_pf.html/
5 Myths About Health Care Around the World
By T.R. Reid
Sunday, August 23, 2009As Americans search for the cure to what ails our health-care system, we've overlooked an invaluable source of ideas and solutions: the rest of the world. All the other industrialized democracies have faced problems like ours, yet they've found ways to cover everybody -- and still spend far less than we do.
I've traveled the world from Oslo to Osaka to see how other developed democracies provide health care. Instead of dismissing these models as "socialist," we could adapt their solutions to fix our problems. To do that, we first have to dispel a few myths about health care abroad:
- It's all socialized medicine out there.
Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans.
In some ways, health care is less "socialized" overseas than in the United States. Almost all Americans sign up for government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands, seniors stick with private insurance plans for life. Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the planet's purest examples of government-run health care.
- Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.
Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.
In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.
Canadians have their choice of providers. In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa.
As for those notorious waiting lists, some countries are indeed plagued by them. Canada makes patients wait weeks or months for nonemergency care, as a way to keep costs down. But studies by the Commonwealth Fund and others report that many nations -- Germany, Britain, Austria -- outperform the United States on measures such as waiting times for appointments and for elective surgeries.
In Japan, waiting times are so short that most patients don't bother to make an appointment. One Thursday morning in Tokyo, I called the prestigious orthopedic clinic at Keio University Hospital to schedule a consultation about my aching shoulder. "Why don't you just drop by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I was in the surgeon's office. Dr. Nakamichi recommended an operation. "When could we do it?" I asked. The doctor checked his computer and said, "Tomorrow would be pretty difficult. Perhaps some day next week?"
- Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.
Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.
U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money.
The world champion at controlling medical costs is Japan, even though its aging population is a profligate consumer of medical care. On average, the Japanese go to the doctor 15 times a year, three times the U.S. rate. They have twice as many MRI scans and X-rays. Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery rates for major diseases are better than in the United States. And yet Japan spends about $3,400 per person annually on health care; the United States spends more than $7,000.
- Cost controls stifle innovation.
False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs.
Overseas, strict cost controls actually drive innovation. In the United States, an MRI scan of the neck region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the identical scan costs $98. Under the pressure of cost controls, Japanese researchers found ways to perform the same diagnostic technique for one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese labs still make a profit.)
- Health insurance has to be cruel.
Not really. American health insurance companies routinely reject applicants with a "preexisting condition" -- precisely the people most likely to need the insurers' service. They employ armies of adjusters to deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and faces big medical bills, the insurer's "rescission department" digs through the records looking for grounds to cancel the policy, often while the victim is still in the hospital. The companies say they have to do this stuff to survive in a tough business.
Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.
The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.
In many ways, foreign health-care models are not really "foreign" to America, because our crazy-quilt health-care system uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans or veterans, we're Britain: The government provides health care, funding it through general taxes, and patients get no bills. For people who get insurance through their jobs, we're Germany: Premiums are split between workers and employers, and private insurance plans pay private doctors and hospitals. For people over 65, we're Canada: Everyone pays premiums for an insurance plan run by the government, and the public plan pays private doctors and hospitals according to a set fee schedule. And for the tens of millions without insurance coverage, we're Burundi or Burma: In the world's poor nations, sick people pay out of pocket for medical care; those who can't pay stay sick or die.
This fragmentation is another reason that we spend more than anybody else and still leave millions without coverage. All the other developed countries have settled on one model for health-care delivery and finance; we've blended them all into a costly, confusing bureaucratic mess.
Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has "the finest health care" in the world. We don't. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the United States does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.
Given our remarkable medical assets -- the best-educated doctors and nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class research -- the United States could be, and should be, the best in the world. To get there, though, we have to be willing to learn some lessons about health-care administration from the other industrialized democracies.
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Trafik Jamz;286285 wrote:
Thought this was a pretty good read:www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_pf.html/
5 Myths About Health Care Around the World
By T.R. Reid
Sunday, August 23, 2009Reid's new book, The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper and Fairer Health Care
"FAIRER" health care? wtf does that mean?
Sick Around America" which aired March 31, 2009, on PBS. But when it appeared, Reid was nowhere to be seen, and his conclusion, that "You can't allow a profit to be made on the basic package of health insurance," was completely absent from the program
Can't allow profit to be made. Yeah.....
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
/playing devils advocate...I've made it clear that I'm not in favor of the public option...
Fairer=everyone has the same access to medical treatments that can save their lives. Very similar in concept to your idea about everyone paying the same $ amount in taxes, only in this case everyone would receive the same medical treatment subsidized by taxes.
Now Dave...back to the article at hand. I am in favor of something like Germany has I guess.
If the "free market" is so great, why are all the insurance companies making fat cash off of their clients while offering a continually weakening product.
It seems to me that the current mindset of the CEO's of insurance companies are less concerned with your "health insurance" than they are at preserving their "wealth insurance". (Seriously....20% increases in premiums every year???)
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