Political Thread 2012
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Not that i like obama, but he sold himself on being "change" or different and he really hasn't.
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GarageAlchemist;326264 wrote:
Not that i like obama, but he sold himself on being "change" or different and he really hasn't.Exactly. FWIW, Political Compass pretty much confirms what I've thought for quite a while about Obama and the "Mainstream" conservatives in the race. They are EXTREMELY close on policy and you won't see any change if you elect any of them either.
Ron Paul is the only person with a substantially different stance in the race.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
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Supreme court will have a larger impact in the next 4 than the President. (probably) Gay marriage and a final healthcare decision coming in to play. I was pretty excited about Huntsman's FP experience for dealing with Iran and middle east BS, as well as trying to work with China over our currency issues and the rest of the emerging Asian markets, but no go on that one.
I think that we are about to find out that the reason we have been so prosperous is because others haven't been for so long. It is going to be hard to compete with a mass of free markets in Asia and the newly democratic middle east as they start to realize how many freedoms they DON'T have (as evidenced by the Arab spring movement) and start working for those freedoms. It will be even harder to compete if we keep playing by the good guy rules and they don't (china, Japan). Their tariffs on our products are outrageous while we give them tax breaks here.
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Based on his policies and actions since he took office 3 years ago. FWIW, most of the Democrats I know hate him for being so far to the right (I occasionally attend the district meetings for both parties).
But let's take Obamacare and stimulus spending out of the equation (even though they used to be advocated by many on the right back in the 90's and even as recently as a few years ago) what are you seeing about him that puts him to the far left?
Can't be military/wars
Can't be size of government as it has shrunk under Obama and he has publicly demanded that a number of overlapping agencies be eliminated.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57358508/obama-seeks-power-to-shrink-the-federal-government/
He has extended Bush era tax cuts for everyone
Kept Gitmo open
basically just continued with the policies of the Bush administration -
For comparison sake, here is the graph from 2008. You can see how far to the right and towards authoritarian he has moved.
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PSiedTSi;326261 wrote:
Seriously? People actually support him? What do you like about him?I like his stance on foreign policy, immigration and war on terrorism. The fact he isnt afraid to say how he really feels and his politics. Most of his views seemed to be what he actually views and not just lip service, but he is a politician.
I dont like romney for several things and his religion bothers me.-- we dont need diversity, we need unity. Back when america was an awesome country we were 1 with each other. not different. but since the late 60's early 70's People started to get whiney. People cant stand on their own two feet and need everything handed to them.
Newt is boring and hypocritical
Ron is too much of a push over -
Well, you can't really take Obamacare and the stimulus out of the equation.
He didn't want to keep the Bush tax cuts, but was forced to. He said he was going to close gitmo, but found out he couldn't.I do give Obama credit for what he's done in the middle east, thats the only thing about him I like.
Shrink the federal govt? Put down the crack pipe.
Trafik Jamz;326270 wrote:
Based on his policies and actions since he took office 3 years ago. FWIW, most of the Democrats I know hate him for being so far to the right (I occasionally attend the district meetings for both parties).But let's take Obamacare and stimulus spending out of the equation (even though they used to be advocated by many on the right back in the 90's and even as recently as a few years ago) what are you seeing about him that puts him to the far left?
Can't be military/wars
Can't be size of government as it has shrunk under Obama and he has publicly demanded that a number of overlapping agencies be eliminated.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57358508/obama-seeks-power-to-shrink-the-federal-government/He has extended Bush era tax cuts for everyone
Kept Gitmo open
basically just continued with the policies of the Bush administrationDaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
DaveH;326275 wrote:
Well, you can't really take Obamacare and the stimulus out of the equation. He didn't want to keep the Bush tax cuts, but was forced to. He said he was going to close gitmo, but found out he couldn't.I do give Obama credit for what he's done in the middle east, thats the only thing about him I like.
Shrink the federal govt? Put down the crack pipe.
I agree, you can't... but it wasn't all that long ago that those were both Republican ideas (including the mandated insurance). The socialist idea would be for the government to pay for and provide health care. Stimulus spending happened under both as well (including under Reagan), not sure that I can/will call it a good thing or a right/left thing since both parties have done it.
I forgot about bailing out the auto industry as well....that first happened under Reagan in 1980 if I remember correctly (probably started under Carter much like this round started under Bush). Again, I'm calling this a neutral because I think whoever was president would have done it, regardless of what they say when they aren't in power.
Like it or not, the Federal Government has shrunk under Obama. As have most state governments.... granted they grew massively for a couple years before shrinking down in following years (though I believe the census was partially to blame for part of the spike in 2010). US Department of Labor provides the data, I just report it.
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I was under the impression that all our actions in the middle east were already laid out before bush left office? The only major move that Obama made was removing McChrystal because he said what a shit job the administration was doing.
It bothers me that Obama gets any credit for Osama being killed. Not like we weren't looking for him for years, and it was the guys on the ground doing the legwork and ST6 that took the compound that should get the credit for that. Obama was sitting in a room 1/2 way around the world. Any American who had been sitting in that chair that day would have said "Go get him".
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Trafik Jamz;326276 wrote:
I agree, you can't... but it wasn't all that long ago that those were both Republican ideas (including the mandated insurance). The socialist idea would be for the government to pay for and provide health care. Stimulus spending happened under both as well (including under Reagan), not sure that I can/will call it a good thing or a right/left thing since both parties have done it.Obama pushed Obamacare through with no R support at all. I'll put it firmly on his shoulders. The stimulus was a bad idea no matter who started or finished it. Obama finished it, and wanted to add more so I'll put well over half of the "badness" on his shoulders.
Trafik Jamz;326276 wrote:
I forgot about bailing out the auto industry as well....that first happened under Reagan in 1980 if I remember correctly (probably started under Carter much like this round started under Bush). Again, I'm calling this a neutral because I think whoever was president would have done it, regardless of what they say when they aren't in power.The bailout doesn't push Obama to the right, just because some of the clowns on the right would have went for it.
Trafik Jamz;326276 wrote:
Like it or not, the Federal Government has shrunk under Obama. As have most state governments.... granted they grew massively for a couple years before shrinking down in following years (though I believe the census was partially to blame for part of the spike in 2010). US Department of Labor provides the data, I just report it.Uhh, No.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
GarageAlchemist;326280 wrote:
It bothers me that Obama gets any credit for Osama being killed. Not like we weren't looking for him for years, and it was the guys on the ground doing the legwork and ST6 that took the compound that should get the credit for that. Obama was sitting in a room 1/2 way around the world. Any American who had been sitting in that chair that day would have said "Go get him".Obama made the call, so I'll give him the credit. If things went to shit on that mission he would have got all the blame, so you gotta give him the credit when it goes good.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
63vette;326278 wrote:
Lol.... If you offset the shrinking of the post office, ass 115,000 more FEDERAL jobs to the graph below.
Conveniently misses all of 2011 except January?
Hmm.... I woulda sworn that postal workers were Federal Employees too...and worse yet, ones that compete with private industry?
I know I'm sounding pro-obama here, but I'm not. I want him out of office as well. My point was that his policies as scored by political compass put him not very far off from the mainstream GOP candidates.
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DaveH;326281 wrote:
Obama finished it, and wanted to add more so I'll put well over half of the "badness" on his shoulders.True, but I'm not sure that it is a Right/Left issue. Therefore I score it neutral.
The bailout doesn't push Obama to the right, just because some of the clowns on the right would have went for it.
Doesn't necessarily push him to the left either. The Federal Government loans/grants/gives money to private sector businesses regularly. I'm not sure that it is socialist for doing so.
Uhh, No.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-09/markets/29997115_1_government-workers-jobs-report-obama-federal <-through June 2011 (which I'll admit shows growth)
I can't find a newer chart other than the one I posted.... and it's possible that it ticked up again.
Washington Post wrote:
Consider these budget statistics:■“In the 1950s and 1960s, there were on average 92 residents for every Federal worker.
■“In the 1980s and 1990s, there were on average 106 residents for every Federal worker.
■ “By 2011, the ratio had increased to 145 residents for every Federal worker.
■ “Since the 1950s and 1960s, the U.S. population increased by 76 percent, the private sector workforce surged 133 percent, while the size of the Federal workforce rose just 11 percent.”
Again, I am just reporting what others have compiled.
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The below video will clear this all up. Make sure to watch it to the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Lmkm5EF5E&context=C3005bc4ADOEgsToPDskK3NKbwXNnSRnVmNlJ418z9
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DaveH;326282 wrote:
Obama made the call, so I'll give him the credit. If things went to shit on that mission he would have got all the blame, so you gotta give him the credit when it goes good.Made the call? He got a call saying, hey WE have been looking for this guy for 10 years and we think we found him. Should we go get him?
Like i said, any American would have said yes. And if that mission would have gone to shit, they would have put it on someone else. He doesn't get called for every military operation and say yes or no. Could he even have possibly said no? No.
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GarageAlchemist;326286 wrote:
Made the call? He got a call saying, hey WE have been looking for this guy for 10 years and we think we found him. Should we go get him?Like i said, any American would have said yes. And if that mission would have gone to shit, they would have put it on someone else. He doesn't get called for every military operation and say yes or no. Could he even have possibly said no? No.
Obama: Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
Maybe he went off of the chart on the left side and re-appeared on the right side?
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