Car Audio?
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uhhh ur gonna hook ur sub up to your cd player??? where did you learn about car audio!
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myself i am going for a SQ Setup with Hifonics ZS 12 subs, a Hifonics ZX7500 amplifier, a Hifonics ZX4400 for my components and i am going with morel components. i am hoping to do semi decent i am not going to travel the world for the comps but just go to a few in the tri-state area
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slowvo wrote:
what do people think of CDT speakers? i really like my componentsI REALLY like CDT speakers. Very high quality...even their entry level stuff.
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mwc1 wrote:
i have an argue for this...but i'll leave it alone......although he is just looking for replacement speakers from what he says....which im sure he will just hook them directly to his cd player.I should have been more clear too. I'm talking about amps that are within the same quality level as the amps they are being compared to. Not trying to say a $45 Jensen/Rockwood/Kenford amp from walmart is gonna have the same quality as a $1000 Zapco. You could probably tell them apart fairly easily. Basically what I was trying to get at is that one $200 amp is going to perform nearly identical to another $200 amp of the same power (Phoenix Gold vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. MA Audio vs. Memphis vs. Linear Power vs. Kenwood vs. Alpine vs. JL Audio vs. JBL, etc...) assuming they are both set to play at the same dB, in the same environment, on the same set of speakers. I'll talk to ya in PM if you have any questions about this, mwc1. Ok?
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tjamz wrote:
I should have been more clear too. I'm talking about amps that are within the same quality level as the amps they are being compared to. Not trying to say a $45 Jensen/Rockwood/Kenford amp from walmart is gonna have the same quality as a $1000 Zapco. You could probably tell them apart fairly easily. Basically what I was trying to get at is that one $200 amp is going to perform nearly identical to another $200 amp of the same power (Phoenix Gold vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. MA Audio vs. Memphis vs. Linear Power vs. Kenwood vs. Alpine vs. JL Audio vs. JBL, etc...) assuming they are both set to play at the same dB, in the same environment, on the same set of speakers. I'll talk to ya in PM if you have any questions about this, mwc1. Ok?haha thanks tjamz...that sounds much better!!....i agree with you that speaker location is a big deal with subwoofers ....but for component speakers i dont really think its that big of a deal....the more the marrier...haha
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There are so many variables, and not a whole lot of people realize that there are TONS of things you can do to improve imaging, soundstage, rear-ambient fill, etc...
If you dont know what these words mean when it comes to car audio I personally woudlnt argue with him. I mean, he did go to school for this...
..and to clarify I have no idea half of them mean
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for the 1st time...i agree'd with him
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mwc1 wrote:
haha thanks tjamz...that sounds much better!!....i agree with you that speaker location is a big deal with subwoofers ....but for component speakers i dont really think its that big of a deal....the more the marrier...hahaNo, speaker location is HUGE for components and much less so for subwoofers, though there are things that you can do when mounting subs to change their tonal characteristics, for the most part subwoofers are omni-directional, whereas high frequency speakers are much more directional and therefore need to be mounted as equal distant from the driver as they can be to produce a good soundstage/imaging. This is why many people mount their component speakers in the kickpanels, it is about as close as you can get inside the cabin of a vehicle to equal distant. Now, some might try and argue that you'll hear the sound coming from the floor rather than the dash, but I will assure you that a properly mounted kickpanel pod will sound as if it is coming from above the dash (you need to properly aim the speakers to accomplish this) since humans hear REALLY well from left/right or front/rear but not as well from up/down (especially when the drivers are aimed properly.)
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and no, I'm not typing this just to argue w/ mwc1, I'm typing to straighten out a few misconceptions that many people have about sound. I'm sure Fallguy would back me up on speaker placement, he used to compete IASCA before he got the bug to drive his car really fast.
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for subwoofers....the install is the biggest part if you want to hit high DB.
for components..yeah speaker location is a factor....but so is the speaker...if the type/kind of speaker didint matter....Dual and Jensen and Pyramid....would be the most popular brands because they are the cheapest.
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dual jensen and pyramid dont make absolute crap...roadsounds is crap(NOT the store, the brand)
Its just like ANF and Buckle clothes...everybody wants to wear the name, who cares if they are actually better or not.
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I never said it was absolute crap....but they blow easy...and its very low quality
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right, but the best speaker in the worst location will sound worse than the worst speaker in the best location (again, assuming it isn't absolute crap)
Yes, box design has a HUGE impact on how a subwoofer behaves, especially in a ported enclosure. A sealed enclosure is very forgiving since you can use an equalizer to increase its response below its F3 point (thats not to say build the smallest enclosure you can for a subwoofer and throw a 1/3 octave EQ on it and you'll be fine...there are limits), you CANNOT do that safely with a ported (vented) enclosure, in fact anything you can do to limit the power at frequencies below the F3 point is highly recommended (subsonic filter) as the cone becomes VERY non-linear below the F3 point and will damage the speaker if not kept in check. That is why many times installers will install sealed enclosures in customers cars who may not be able to detect cone distortion/breakup...it saves them from doing warranty work.
Since we are on the subject of speaker boxes I should point out that there are basically 3 types of enclosures that are used in car audio.
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The sealed enclosure. As the name states a sealed enclosure is a speaker box that has no venting/ports. This type of enclosure is very popular as it is simple to construct, easy to predict, and very natural sounding. Music that responds well to this type of enclosure would be Classic Rock, Jazz, Classical, Country, Heavy Metal, Hard Rock...however most music will sound good with this type of setup.
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The ported (vented) enclosure. Similar to the sealed enclosure except that is uses ports to tune the BOX. Ported enclosures are often not used because they are harder to control/design and have harmonic problems below their F3 point (F3 is the frequency at which the response curve has fallen 3 decibels in one octave). They also tend to require a larger enclosure which makes for a more complicated enclosure when dealing w/ the small spaces found in most automobiles. Ported enclosures work well for deep pounding bass when designed/equalized properly. Music that can see real benefits from ported enclosures are Rap & Hip-Hop.
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The bandpass enclosure. The bandpass enclosure gets its name from the fact that it only allows a certain octave band to be heard. This type of enclosure is approximately 6dB louder than a standard sealed enclosure due to its design of having the entire subwoofer encased in the enclosure in a two part box (the front of the woofer in one box and the back of the enclosure in a second box) w/ a port (vent) on one (4th Order) or both sides (6th Order). The main advantage that is inherantly 6dB louder than a sealed enclosure, the downside is that while it plays a range of music (say 30 Hz to 80 Hz) it plays it all at the box tuning frequency (meaning all the music will sound like what the box was tuned for regardless of what frequency is actually playing....for example if the frequency of the box is 43Hz, all music played inthat box will be played at approximately 43Hz....even if it is actually higher/lower frequency than that).
After reading that, one would assume that SPL competitors would use bandpass enclosures, but that is not the case. Most, in fact, have started using Ported enclosures since they require less space (than bandpass), have easy access to replace speakers (SPL competitors go through speakers FAST) and since they can tune the port of the enclosure for a desired frequency.
Ok...since I've written a book already, I might as well address amplifiers. I won't go into how you won't be able to tell amp A from amp B, as I've already discussed that in a previous post on this thread. What I will discuss is amplifier power and how it relates to perceived loudness. Most people have the assumption that if you double the amount of power going to a loudspeaker then you in turn double the loudness. THIS IS UNTRUE. By doubling the output power you actually only increase the loudness (decibels=dB) by 3db. It works on an alogorhythmical scale, and in order to double the loudness you actually need 10 times the power. For example to double the loudness of a 250 watt amplifier you need 2500 watts of power. To double the loudness of a 2500 watt amplifier, you need 25000 watts of power. I should note that this only applies if you are keeping the same number of speakers inthe system because every time you double the amount of speakers (playing the same frequency) you gain 6 dB.
Ok class, I want everyone to review todays lesson over the weekend, there will be a test on Monday.
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hahahah^^^
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just so you know, I think the "hahahah^^^" was because I actually took the time to write that up. I'm pretty sure he agrees w/ me on what I said.
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