Imports found to be inflating their hp numbers.
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amicheze wrote:
i still think they should use whp numbers instead. put 'em all on a specific dyno setup and use that.no because then if someone dyno'd their car and it was less than factory stated they would prolly successfully pull of a large lawsuit for false advertisement or somethin...in this day and age you never know anymore
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I know back in the day the companies would purposely advertise a lower HP number than a car actually had to save the buyer on insurance costs. Maybe theres a little bit of that going on here. Something there not telling us.
Sterling Archer: Oh my god! You killed a hooker!
Cyril Figgis: Call girl!
Sterling Archer: No Cyril! When they're dead they're just hookers!
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i'm guessing that it's just the big engine makers getting together to buy out the standard so that they can potentially make imports look bad. what cars last the longest? toyotas (some 1970s starlet went 7xx,xxx miles on a stock block, if i remember correctly). what cars sell the best? toyotas and hondas. who stands to lose the most? toyotas and hondas. who stands to gain with average joe? the big 3 automakers.
this has conspiracy scribbled all over it -
Funny how they only listed the Vette, XLR and G6 and didn't show the STi, Evo MR, G35/350z, RX8, Mazdaspeed 6 and others. They also completely forgot to mention the Cobalt, SRT4, Focus and others in there as well. For the most part they were comparing apples to oranges.
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tjamz wrote:
Funny how they only listed the Vette, XLR and G6 and didn't show the STi, Evo MR, G35/350z, RX8, Mazdaspeed 6 and others. They also completely forgot to mention the Cobalt, SRT4, Focus and others in there as well. For the most part they were comparing apples to oranges.
So are you trying to say that the STi, Evo MR, G35/350z, RX8, Mazdaspeed 6 are UNDER rated, and they just HAPPENED to not say it? And that the Cobalt, SRT4, and Focus are OVER rated?Why can't you just take it for what it is...which is a list of cars that were under/over rated.
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Right, but it seems EXTREMELY unlikely that every domestic is under rated and every import is over rated. To me it looks like they cherry picked to make the article. Seems like they took the "Big Dogs" from GM and the mid performance cars from the import side and tried to have a comparison test. Wouldn't it be funny if Toyota/Honda/Acura/Nissan/Subaru/Lexus/whoever decided to just tune the cars a bit more aggressively and produced substantially higher numbers (say 30 hp or more...not unheard of w/ a good tune.)
BTW for the most part the import side needs to adjust on average about 7 HP. I'd be interested to know what the average would be for SIMILAR cars on the domestic side.
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ok 7 of the 11 of those cars are imports which seems a little biased on the domestic side. Not to mention none of the domestic cars exampled on that list have an engine under 3 liters. point of the matter, where are the figures for n.a small engine domestics? wait there arent any that compare to imports... like tjamz said we are comparing apples to oranges.
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Neons are actually severely underrated.
New SRT4s have been known to put down 230 whp, when they are rated at 230 flywheel hp.
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integra_gsr98 wrote:
Neons are actually severely underrated.New SRT4s have been known to put down 230 whp, when they are rated at 230 flywheel hp.
Damn you beat me to it.Correct me if I am wrong but this is the only car that you could say that really does have an underrated power rating.
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tjamz wrote:
BTW for the most part the import side needs to adjust on average about 7 HP. I'd be interested to know what the average would be for SIMILAR cars on the domestic side.
Probably less.
We'll find out next year if any of the hp numbers raise or drop....then you can start throwing accusations around.I think it's rather stupid that you would think they purposley would say imports have their numbers down and domestics have their numbers up. If GM or ford had car that were LOW on hp, they would have showed them too.
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Well, that list simply states what a lot of people have known for years.
The smart consumer throws horsepower rating out the window, since it only specifies a specific point on a power curve, and tells nothing about the power characteristics of the car. Most manufacturers don't even include at what RPM that horsepower rating was achieved in their brochures anymore.
It's all marketing. Heck, I will use the Mustang for example. 1987-1992 Mustangs were rated at 225 hp. In 1993, that mysteriously dropped to 205 hp, though nothing had changed (Ford said that over the years, various emission modifications had reduced the power). The new-for-94 Mustang was released the next year, with a smaller intake for hood clearance, and was rated at 215 hp. A 10 hp increase over the previous generation! How convienient!
Horsepower as given by the factory is more of a marketing tool these days. If you think it is bad here, you should see what they do in Japan.
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out there wrote:
are you referring to the "gentleman's agreement" that no car has more than 276hp?Yes.
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94NDTA wrote:
Probably less.
We'll find out next year if any of the hp numbers raise or drop....then you can start throwing accusations around.I think it's rather stupid that you would think they purposley would say imports have their numbers down and domestics have their numbers up. If GM or ford had car that were LOW on hp, they would have showed them too.
I think its even more absurd to think that ALL imports have lower number and ALL domestics have higher than what is rated.
I'm all for the change, but is an average of 7 horsepower going to affect someone who is considering buying an accord/XB/RSX/whatever? My guess is probably not. Just like being able to list 5 more HP isn't going to affect Corvette sales one way or the other. Heck even the extra 29 HP that the XLR gets to add won't have a big affect, cuz people who buy that pricerange of cars tend to be fairly brand loyal anyways.
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adog wrote:
I think a big reason the domestic hp estimates were on the conservative side has to do with Ford getting caught fudging on the Cobra numbers in the 90's. Since then, most GM and Ford engines have been underrated, some by a considerable margin.Actually they underrated them big time during the muscle car days also you can't tell me the 426 hemi and the 429 cobra jects only made 425hp area shit i read an archived aritcle that they did a rear wheel hp test on both and they were both around 500hp at the rear wheels
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From what i took from the article is yes it's byised like ALL news or articles are, but at the same time their are different ways and types of flywheel horsepower, it also varies with air temp, humidiy and a ton of other factors... shit the same motor to motor one right after another on the line can come out easly with 10hp differnce on the same motor tested in controled conditions.... anyone that buys one car cause it's rated at 10 or 20 hp more than another is a moron PERIOD!!!!
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TakeYourTopOff wrote:
Actually they underrated them big time during the muscle car days also you can't tell me the 426 hemi and the 429 cobra jects only made 425hp area shit i read an archived aritcle that they did a rear wheel hp test on both and they were both around 500hp at the rear wheels
cough bullshit cough
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