Dyno in Fargo?!?! Interested?!?

[Steve-o]

tjamz wrote:
Not doubting anyones tuning capabilities here, and no offense to anyone on this matter, but he does have one of the best reputations in the Utec tuning world (called TXS and asked who they'd recommend to tune a WRX if location was not an issue....their response to me was Jorge, then TXS, then Phil @ Elementtuning.) Right now Jorge is my troubleshooter/fine tuner...just send him my datalogs w/ wideband info and he tells me if anything looks out of order and tells me what parameters to change to make it smoother.

The $500, would that be in addition to the charge that Jorge would require? If so, seems a bit high, if not I assume you meant if just 5 of us were getting tuned that day....obviously we'd try and get a bunch of people together to minimize costs...just throwing ideas out there that would have been asked anyway.

Thanks for the response though

Nathan must have been busy?

I will tell you how it went down in MN this summer:
$450 for 2 hours. He would not break it up into one hour chunks until someones car broke and he had too.

I'm just warning you, wait for the people to start backing out as soon as they hear that its going to be over $200 an hour. Their aren't enough people here with "big" setups that need it, the stage 2 guys won't care, because jorge has said it himself that its not worth the money to dial a stage 2 car in.

Jorge is a good tuner, you know that and so does anyone that reads Nabisco. I've just had some problems that I didn't really appreciate.

In Conclusion: Dan @ godspeed will be tuning my car this spring. Tintmasters doesn't own a dyno YET. Where did that random $112 an hour come from?

[wa2fastcamaro]

Hey I like the idea, if you do it, would you do discounts? Bercause I would probally use it 30-40 times a year. I build a lot of cars and even now I got 5 of them I want dynoed so I can get them tuned right.

Mike

[BlueSRT0483]

You guys got to keep in mind, more than just people from the Fargo area will use it once it's known to be out there.
G.F., Detroit Lakes, Fergus, and not just imports.. and maybe not even just cars, maybe trucks as well.
I think it'll get used quite well; there are what... 3 dynos in the cities?
so for Fargo; that's like a 3 1/2 hr trip. to head down there...
And they are all mustang dyno's down there; and only one that i know is awd.
i think it'd work.
but it's a gamble, but most business decisions are.

[2wheeler]

STiSchucky wrote:
we're not all ballers like u are.
You may not be, but your parents are. THEY own a pretty STi. They can ante up for your dyno time.

[tntmstr]

tjamz wrote:
Only thing I don't like about Dynapack is that they tend to have higher numbers than traditional dyno configurations and it doesn't take the rotating mass of the wheels into consideration when tuning (whether this matters or not is another story all together).

As stated further in this thread, this is one of the most accurate dyno number ONCE you get a baseline. Yes it may read high/low compared to xyz dyno, but if you use the same dyno throughout your mods, and it is accurate, isn't that the point? You are an audio guy, competing all around the upper midwest had me hitting 6db high or low on different comps... Would it be easier and better to tell your acheivement if you always used the same db meter?!? I would think so!

tjamz wrote:
I'd probably use the dyno 4-6 times a year and almost exclusively for tuning. The $112/hour, does that include having you guys tune the car or can I tune myself at a reduced rate?

The $115ISH amount would be for US to tune the car obviously. Can you walk into any other place and just 'use' their dyno? NO! What happens if something bad happens, do you go after the business with the dyno or yourself?? You will say yourself, but the realistic part of life, is you would go after anyone you could to get a new motor/turbo/etc... NOBODY WOULD USE THE DYNO EXCEPT THOSE THAT RECEIVE TRAINING ON HOW TO OPERATE IT AND TUNE ON IT EXTENSIVELY!

tjamz wrote:
Would you guys be going to training schools on AEM tuning and UTEC/Hydra tuning? How about Hondata? Not that those matter to me, I'll just tune it myself, but it will probably make a difference to others that want tuning done.
It is too early to say what software we would be fluent in, but obviously we aren't gonna jump into a Hydra unit not knowing a damn thing about it... I thought I posted earlier that we wouldn't touch a car we didn't know about the software on... As stated before it isn't worth the ego trip to try and tune something we know NOTHING about!

tjamz wrote:
Also, would you guys be offended if (for example) me, Kirk, Joe, Stephen & Schulzy paid for someone like Jorge Rift (Payne Technologies) to come to fargo and tune our vehicles (meaning a tuning day by the top tuner in the Subaru community in the united states)?

Offended...maybe.... we foot the $103,000 bill to have the dyno here, then $10-$20k to receive training on the software, only to have someone bring in a different tuner?!?! Do you think Jorge was born with his knowledge? I am pretty sure with shane building a 600hp subaru we would be able to tune a subaru very well! If you wanted to bring Jorge in to tune, we would start the rate at say... $1000 an hour.

tjamz wrote:
How about offering a discount if you buy X amount of dollars, you can tune for a Y% discount the day of your appointment...maybe get some baseline runs in and then see what kind of gains you got from the mods?

We set the rates for the dyno, so if there is a loyal customer that uses it a lot OBVIOUSLY a good business would offer a discount. I think our strong customers know about the deals they receive for staying loyal to our shop... And yes we would have a rate for those that just got a intake/header/catback installed to see what they gained... But don't forget this dyno is not free and we need to pay for it somehow, so good 'buddies' will not see the dyno time for next to free, as the employees would not either.

No offensive to anything stated above, but these questions are kinda a little out there. We will not be buying this dyno, if we don't have mature/knowledgable people running it... plain and simple

Jason

[Raider]

alot of dyno's will let the customer tune there own rides if they have there own software...I did that myself and I just payed for dyno time

[tntmstr]

Raider wrote:
alot of dyno's will let the customer tune there own rides if they have there own software...I did that myself and I just payed for dyno time

This may be true, but at the same rate, with the insurance company, there will only be a few certain people on the policy and we don't want anyone to hurt themselves or cars... If someone is really interested to tune themselves, the rate would be escalated and we would have to see what kind of 'rider' we would need for insurance... At this point I would say there will be nobody tuning on the dyno unless they are an employee and trained on how to operate a dyna pack.... Things can change but the point of this thread isn't to get into deep details, but to see what kind of demand.

Jason

[Raider]

well then your dyno is no good for me...I will still be using Andy's dyno

[RE-Enema]

tntmstr wrote:
The $115ISH amount would be for US to tune the car obviously. Can you walk into any other place and just 'use' their dyno? NO! What happens if something bad happens, do you go after the business with the dyno or yourself?? You will say yourself, but the realistic part of life, is you would go after anyone you could to get a new motor/turbo/etc... NOBODY WOULD USE THE DYNO EXCEPT THOSE THAT RECEIVE TRAINING ON HOW TO OPERATE IT AND TUNE ON IT EXTENSIVELY!

tntmstr wrote:
Offended...maybe.... we foot the $103,000 bill to have the dyno here, then $10-$20k to receive training on the software, only to have someone bring in a different tuner?!?! Do you think Jorge was born with his knowledge? I am pretty sure with shane building a 600hp subaru we would be able to tune a subaru very well! If you wanted to bring Jorge in to tune, we would start the rate at say... $1000 an hour.

So you are saying that if i want a knowledgeable tuner to come and tune my car , and rent your dyno from you for the day with one of your employees to set it up monitor the use, and sign a waiver saying that TINTMASTERS is not responsible for damages, you will not let me do it?

Finding a good rotary tuner is very hard. There are maybe 4 in the US that i would trust to tune my car.

A lot of places will rent the dyno out for an entire day, bring a reputable tuner in, and set it up the dyno. You could rent the dyno for $1500 for ten hours. I don't see why that would be such a big deal. Make everyone sign a waiver, and provide and employee to set the cars up and let someone else tune.

I wouldn't trust anyone in town to tune my car, so count me out. If you would have let people rent the dyno for the day, i would have done it.

If you are going to get offended by bringing in a knowledgeable tuner to tune certain cars, you probably would lose some business. You guys might even be able to learn something by bringing in a well know tuner. They always have little tricks that they might show you.

[RE-Enema]

This post is deleted!

[dubbsy]

Raider wrote:
alot of dyno's will let the customer tune there own rides if they have there own software...I did that myself and I just payed for dyno time

I think that's going to be an important part of it. There are all kinds of options for self tuning programs and people just looking for a dyno to tune on.
besides, that's what waivers are for.

and for bringing in someone else to tune on the dyno. Atleast for the first few years you should seriously consider it IMO. You never know what you might be able to learn from him/her/it in the process (we did that at HiTech in Anoka. They were VERY reluctant to let us bring it our own tuner... but by the end of the weekend Brian Ebert and our tuner spent more time in the car talking about tuning stuff and showing Brian the programs/equipment then they did driving the car I think).

[harwood39]

I think it would be worth it. The prices seem fair enough. i think thats about what the going rate is for tuning and pulls. Also I would use it when needed, Plus than if you guys can tune basically any Engine management, we would have to travel and worry about trailering a car that isnt tuned. I like the idea.

[tntmstr]

Raider wrote:
well then your dyno is no good for me...I will still be using Andy's dyno

I posted previously to you Raider...... The final details are not important right now.... If our insurance doesn't allow anyone but us to touch the dyno, then I guess you will be using Andy's dyno. We would be somewhat open to the IDEA, but there is so much other info needed before I can give false info and say 'sure you can use it to tune your vehicles'.... get my drift??? We have a ways to go before that detail is important... bare with us and we will see what we are able to do... I am sure for a price and some time with the insurance guy, we could make it happen, but lets burn that bridge when the time is right.

Jason

[tntmstr]

RE-Enema wrote:
So you are saying that if i want a knowledgeable tuner to come and tune my car , and rent your dyno from you for the day with one of your employees to set it up monitor the use, and sign a waiver saying that TINTMASTERS is not responsible for damages, you will not let me do it?

Finding a good rotary tuner is very hard. There are maybe 4 in the US that i would trust to tune my car.

A lot of places will rent the dyno out for an entire day, bring a reputable tuner in, and set it up the dyno. You could rent the dyno for $1500 for ten hours. I don't see why that would be such a big deal. Make everyone sign a waiver, and provide and employee to set the cars up and let someone else tune.

I wouldn't trust anyone in town to tune my car, so count me out. If you would have let people rent the dyno for the day, i would have done it.

If you are going to get offended by bringing in a knowledgeable tuner to tune certain cars, you probably would lose some business. You guys might even be able to learn something by bringing in a well know tuner. They always have little tricks that they might show you.

Yes we would be open for the IDEA, but at the same time everyone needs to understand that this is JUST a feeler thread. We need time to see demand, to see what everyone needs (and it is apparent that we need to further research what insurance is for bringing someone else in to tune at a higher rate, and let people tune their own cars) If enough people feel that they would want a tuner to come to Fargo for their car, that may affect the overall cost of the tuning to everyone, or cause an enormous rate to that individual which isn't our goal or fair.. LOTZ OF X FACTORS, but I am seeing a demand for personal tuning and bringing people in, and maybe that aspect of the tuning world would be ok?!? It was just the idea of bringing someone in to tune a Subaru was a little heartfelt as we would have VAST knowledge on that particular vehicle...but a rotary/truck/certain V8 may require someone to bring somebody renouned in to help. We will keep this idea fresh in our minds!

Jason

[HandoEX]

I can see myself using it one-two times per year.

[Guest]

Ok, let me explain why I brought up "outside" tuners. They have tuned hundreds/thousands of cars, have HUGE knowledge of the software they tune with and have most of the bugs/quirks figured out in their areas of expertise. (BTW Steve-O, Nathan was the one that gave me the info) In short, I would rather pay $500 to have my car properly tuned in 2 hours than $500 to have my car "figured out" in 4 hours. So far, I have about $150 total into tuning my car. I like Ron & the rest of the guys at RS, they treat me well but it did take them LOTS of time to get it right and realistically they'll never get my car to the point that I want it....though 310whp and 352wtq isn't too bad....I'd rather pay the seasoned professional to tune my car to the max (whether that be Dan, Jorge, Nathan, Phil, Shiv, whoever) potential. This is not a shot at you guys, just my 2 cents on the matter.

[tntmstr]

tjamz wrote:
Ok, let me explain why I brought up "outside" tuners. They have tuned hundreds/thousands of cars, have HUGE knowledge of the software they tune with and have most of the bugs/quirks figured out in their areas of expertise. (BTW Steve-O, Nathan was the one that gave me the info) In short, I would rather pay $500 to have my car properly tuned in 2 hours than $500 to have my car "figured out" in 4 hours. So far, I have about $150 total into tuning my car. I like Ron & the rest of the guys at RS, they treat me well but it did take them LOTS of time to get it right and realistically they'll never get my car to the point that I want it....though 310whp and 352wtq isn't too bad....I'd rather pay the seasoned professional to tune my car to the max (whether that be Dan, Jorge, Nathan, Phil, Shiv, whoever) potential. This is not a shot at you guys, just my 2 cents on the matter.

I fully understand your point Chuck, but you aren't seeing our vision... I will explain a little further on our 'game plan' if you will. You being one of few at this point, are into 'tuning' your car. You want to acheive every ounce of hp/tq/af from your vehicle when you modify it. If we got a dyno, you would want to have someone that knows your software front to back to come and spend as little time on your vehicle as necessary to get it top notch. Where the issue lays is we as a tuning shop, will not be able to further ourselves if all the serious people turn to other tuners. Yes for awhile it may take a little more time to get your vehicle top notch, but we would learn what works well and what doesn't. So on the next vehicle we will have carried over knowledge from your car to the next guy. Dan, Jorge, Nathan, Phil, and Shiv started at square one. Yes I understand that 2 of them developed the software so they obviously knew about tuning before the software was created, but where did they start? For us to be successful and keep the dyno in town, we would NEED to be knowledgable and known to tune cars properly. So what would be needed from YOU is a little extra time (which you WOULDN'T be charged for...(the extra time that is)) to have us further ourselves and help keep your expenses down (bringing in a tuner cannot be cheap). We want to build a reputation throughout the area as a reputible shop that tunes very well... and to acheive this will take patience and devotion from you and other in the area. If we are just a shop that gets hp #'s for people, and never tunes we will not have the dyno for a year. Bottom line. Too get things rolling IF THIS WORKS OUT, it may help to have one of the above named present during tuning, but we would hope to get the confidence of the scene to tune their car without the help of someone else. That is our 'vision'.

Jason

[Raider]

Jason if you buy this dyno are you going to offer all kinds of tuning? not just for imports but for domestics also? no good just spinning up cars/trucks on the dyno if you cant offer them some type of tunning...and then your looking at more training and software to do this

[PSiedTSi]

tntmstr wrote:
I fully understand your point Chuck, but you aren't seeing our vision... I will explain a little further on our 'game plan' if you will. You being one of few at this point, are into 'tuning' your car. You want to acheive every ounce of hp/tq/af from your vehicle when you modify it. If we got a dyno, you would want to have someone that knows your software front to back to come and spend as little time on your vehicle as necessary to get it top notch. Where the issue lays is we as a tuning shop, will not be able to further ourselves if all the serious people turn to other tuners. Yes for awhile it may take a little more time to get your vehicle top notch, but we would learn what works well and what doesn't. So on the next vehicle we will have carried over knowledge from your car to the next guy. Dan, Jorge, Nathan, Phil, and Shiv started at square one. Yes I understand that 2 of them developed the software so they obviously knew about tuning before the software was created, but where did they start? For us to be successful and keep the dyno in town, we would NEED to be knowledgable and known to tune cars properly. So what would be needed from YOU is a little extra time (which you WOULDN'T be charged for...(the extra time that is)) to have us further ourselves and help keep your expenses down (bringing in a tuner cannot be cheap). We want to build a reputation throughout the area as a reputible shop that tunes very well... and to acheive this will take patience and devotion from you and other in the area. If we are just a shop that gets hp #'s for people, and never tunes we will not have the dyno for a year. Bottom line. Too get things rolling IF THIS WORKS OUT, it may help to have one of the above named present during tuning, but we would hope to get the confidence of the scene to tune their car without the help of someone else. That is our 'vision'.

Jason

It does make a lot of sense...you do have to start somewhere...Like you said though, it would be nice if you gave us a break on pricing, etc if you were still learning the software so we don't have to pay for your inexperience right away. I mean I know you guys have to make money but we also don't want to pay $115ish an hour for you to struggle to learn something. Maybe even give a few random people with all different software breaks on tuning so you guys can learn etc? Obviously this would only work if you were comfortable touching the car...Not only would you learn in a real world business situation(not just a class), but you would build a good name from the beginning. I dunno if any of that is what you guys were thinking or not but I thought I would say it. I would love to self-tune as well down the road, but like you said thats for future decisions...

[DaveH]

tntmstr wrote:
Where the issue lays is we as a tuning shop, will not be able to further ourselves if all the serious people turn to other tuners. Yes for awhile it may take a little more time to get your vehicle top notch, but we would learn what works well and what doesn't. So on the next vehicle we will have carried over knowledge from your car to the next guy.
Jason

It's good to see that you (TM) are looking at the big picture. When this thread started, the first thing I thought of was that something would need to be different from the way Performance Auto ran the dyno when they had one in town. As we all know, they didn't give up on the idea without a reason. That said, I don't know much about these Dynopak dyno's. It seems hard to believe that the little box on the floor doesn't try to flip over when you put some serious HP into them. What is the max HP of the dyno you were thinking of getting?