Microsoft Sharepoint Support in Fargo?
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Just got a call to a company called "Northland Systems" a Cisco Broker based out of Plymouth (Western Suburb)
Long story short - one of there employees called there support - was on the phone with at least 6 reps (this told me 2nd hand of course) and was on the phone for 7 hours....
Apparently they don't understand what FSMO roles really need to be on a SBS server do they? I won't get in to detail, but I thought one of you guys worked over there. Is sharepoint services and other MBS products (Thankfully I don't have to touch them most of the time) supported over in Fargo? It was my understanding it was all out of Washington.
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Bookem;179341 wrote:
I can ask my neighbor............but I'd have to print off the mumbo-jumboNo my main question is ALL of MBS software support ouf of Fargo, and are they starting to trickle down native MS product (IE: Sharepoint, Exchange, SQL) to there as well? God I hope not.
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BrianGriffin81;179342 wrote:
No my main question is ALL of MBS software support ouf of Fargo, and are they starting to trickle down native MS product (IE: Sharepoint, Exchange, SQL) to there as well? God I hope not.They have software support for Sharepoint, and SQL for sure at Microsoft/Volt.
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tjamz;179381 wrote:
They have software support for Sharepoint, and SQL for sure at Microsoft/Volt.Volt is that over glorified temp agency that works directly with Microsoft, and some other various companies. I didn't know they had an office in Fargo, that would explain everything.
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To call it a temp agency is a little harsh. They are a subcontracted business partner/employee development firm. Its not like you can be a complete idiot and get a job there, you do have to know a little about computers, pass certifications, etc... For many it is a foot in the door to get on at Microsoft. It is lower paying than Microsoft of course, but their CSR's work with teams from MS to solve problems. Basically they are tier 1 customer service (maybe tier 2 even) and then as problems get escalated or go unresolved, the Microsoft CSR's take over.
Think about this: Many people who contact the help desk have overly simple problems that can be solved by anyone with a flowchart. Why pay your top creative problem solving people to do menial jobs when someone with basic computer knowledge can do it for a LOT less money?
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Some of the MBS ERP products have support organizations in Fargo, and some slice of the Office support is happening in Fargo as well now.
Sharepoint and SBS are not part of MBS, although the new "MBD" (Microsoft Business Division) does seem to lump IW (Information Worker.. i.e. Office) and the traditional ERP products (Navision, Axapta, Great Plains). Sharepoint historically has been tightly married to the office group, so it is conceivable that some sharepoint support is happening here in Fargo.
Why does it matter? I don't understand what question you are asking.. it sounds like you just want to bitch about Microsoft?
As a side note, Volt provides a variety of people for different types of roles, with different levels of talent. While it may be generally true (although I don't know that it is) that Volt supplies primarily lower-level talent, there are certainly exceptions. Some extremely qualified people choose to not go "blue badge" (i.e. full time employee) precisely so they can take the mandatory 100 day break that contractors are required to take every year
I worked for MS out in redmond for a bit over 3 years before re-locating to the office here. I'm happy to try and help you out if that's what you're after, although in many cases people have domain knowledge in one of our products or technologies that I don't have.
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thrash;179449 wrote:
Some of the MBS ERP products have support organizations in Fargo, and some slice of the Office support is happening in Fargo as well now.Sharepoint and SBS are not part of MBS, although the new "MBD" (Microsoft Business Division) does seem to lump IW (Information Worker.. i.e. Office) and the traditional ERP products (Navision, Axapta, Great Plains). Sharepoint historically has been tightly married to the office group, so it is conceivable that some sharepoint support is happening here in Fargo.
Why does it matter? I don't understand what question you are asking.. it sounds like you just want to bitch about Microsoft?
As a side note, Volt provides a variety of people for different types of roles, with different levels of talent. While it may be generally true (although I don't know that it is) that Volt supplies primarily lower-level talent, there are certainly exceptions. Some extremely qualified people choose to not go "blue badge" (i.e. full time employee) precisely so they can take the mandatory 100 day break that contractors are required to take every year
I worked for MS out in redmond for a bit over 3 years before re-locating to the office here. I'm happy to try and help you out if that's what you're after, although in many cases people have domain knowledge in one of our products or technologies that I don't have.
No desire to go over to that side, been consulting for 10+ years now, and wouldn't want it any other way. I was just shall we say, impressed, by the lackluster support and unacceptable knowledgebase that was supported to an MS Gold Partner.
A good chance is the people whom contact your support team are either A) MCSE/MCSA, perhaps even MVP in certain products, or rather B) Have years of IT knowledge. I was far more comfortable with getting a hold of through (Since we are an MS Gold Partner) our support team based out of Redmond, and the knowledge they brought to the table. However - Volt needs to highly reconsider their training/certification regiment after that terrible phone call. 8 hours downtime is unacceptable for a client with support for a trivial matter like they had.
/rant
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Also to add, I don't hate Microsoft, I hate Aruba
MS gets a bad rap for some of their products, but they offer a great streamlined solution (With my only complaint being there push for IPv6 which is, absolutely blasphemous)
I am just upset at the lack of education/training that not only this particular rep had, but 4 others.
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tjamz;179445 wrote:
To call it a temp agency is a little harsh. They are a subcontracted business partner/employee development firm. Its not like you can be a complete idiot and get a job there, you do have to know a little about computers, pass certifications, etc... For many it is a foot in the door to get on at Microsoft. It is lower paying than Microsoft of course, but their CSR's work with teams from MS to solve problems. Basically they are tier 1 customer service (maybe tier 2 even) and then as problems get escalated or go unresolved, the Microsoft CSR's take over.Think about this: Many people who contact the help desk have overly simple problems that can be solved by anyone with a flowchart. Why pay your top creative problem solving people to do menial jobs when someone with basic computer knowledge can do it for a LOT less money?
he speaks the truth, trust me lol
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Hrmmm, I'd like to see the credentials of those certifications then.
For certain the person whom he spoke to (assuming he passed even a basic 270-90 test) would understand certain credentials are on a SBS (IE: All FSMO roles)
SBS Server has a plethora of questions on the 270-93, it would be fairly difficult to pass one's exam without basic knowledge of this.
I will have to doubt that they have to pass certifications, perhaps supervisors, but certainly not the support professionals (or at least once again, these 4)
Certifications mean nothing, I have (had let me rephrase) employees in the past, with no education, no certifcation, and half of them work for AT&T now as a part of an MPLS design team. However, when working with a company's product, and representing them it is vital to recieve those certifications.
I'm a licensed Cisco dealer, therefore, I must keep my CCIE every 2 years, and as a matter of fact they change these tests quite often; August 15th the exam will be entirely different.
Do not try to convince me what volt is and what volt isn't, the highest "skill level" set that they find are .Net developers - a colleague of mine was a recruiter for them for 5 years until he left for Teksystems, and now works with Bucher Christensen Consulting, Cargill, and EDS.
Volt is like every other IT recruiter out there, trying to fill a gap in the IT employment, which is nessecary, however (not all the time) but sometimes, just like any other industry, they tend to over exert themselves, and place the need of the client (in this case Microsoft) before the quality of the candidate.
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Upon further reading, and evaluation of your comment Tjamz, I agree with you to a certain extent. They are tier 1, however, they are being marketed as different.
They are being marketed out to these clients whom are paying hefty contract fee's as support professionals, when they are far from that. Either A) Increase the training that Volt recieves, so that the client can feel the blowback of this regiment, or B) Offer different support locale for the clients
Aruba has a done fine job of this in the past including of there streamlined products (Vast cry from what cisco's latest offering is, particularly in the core layer) and as for there support, they are very blunt in what each how you would call "tier" is capable of.
I feel the pain for the client of Northland systems, when they are paying x amount of money for contract and support fee's on top of there licensing. They expect results, and they shouldn't have to pay the firm that I represent on top of what they have already committed to, to solve a problem that is specifically within there regiments.
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I'll let Irish speak to this, he came up through Volt and now works for Microsoft. My brother-in-law currently works for Volt (w/ a 4 year MIS degree).
Yes, their services are being marketed to clients who pay hefty fees, but you also have to realize what I said before that MOST help desk type calls can be handled by ANYONE w/ an ounce of common sense and the ability to read a diagnostic flowchart. Sometimes people call in with more complex issues. It is at this point in time that the escalation occurs. The people in the call escalation areas are the ones more likely to be certified and have a more in depth understanding of the products they are assisting on. There will be times when even they cannot handle the issue and the call gets escalated even higher...possibly to Microsoft employees who will attempt a more in depth assessment and diagnosis. Like any other CS department there are going to be times when they can't answer the questions OR when their customers just don't have the knowledge to understand what they are being asked and therefore don't do what they are told to do...and then the issue doesn't get resolved. Another possibility is that someone in the lower tiers failed to try a process that they should have done....the tiers above them assume that it has been tried already because it is standard protocol, but for whatever reason it wasn't done. The upper tier people skip over that portion assuming it has already been tried when in reality a Tier 1 person may have been able to answer the question if they had presented it....of course it is still possible that when the client called, they immediately asked to speak to someone higher up so steps may have been skipped there as well. In a perfect world, a flow-chart and the ability to read would be all that is needed at a help desk...but also in that world the help desk wouldn't be needed since everything would be simple and nothing would ever mess up.
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tjamz;179474 wrote:
I'll let Irish speak to this, he came up through Volt and now works for Microsoft. My brother-in-law currently works for Volt (w/ a 4 year MIS degree).Yes, their services are being marketed to clients who pay hefty fees, but you also have to realize what I said before that MOST help desk type calls can be handled by ANYONE w/ an ounce of common sense and the ability to read a diagnostic flowchart. Sometimes people call in with more complex issues. It is at this point in time that the escalation occurs. The people in the call escalation areas are the ones more likely to be certified and have a more in depth understanding of the products they are assisting on. There will be times when even they cannot handle the issue and the call gets escalated even higher...possibly to Microsoft employees who will attempt a more in depth assessment and diagnosis. Like any other CS department there are going to be times when they can't answer the questions OR when their customers just don't have the knowledge to understand what they are being asked and therefore don't do what they are told to do...and then the issue doesn't get resolved. Another possibility is that someone in the lower tiers failed to try a process that they should have done....the tiers above them assume that it has been tried already because it is standard protocol, but for whatever reason it wasn't done. The upper tier people skip over that portion assuming it has already been tried when in reality a Tier 1 person may have been able to answer the question if they had presented it....of course it is still possible that when the client called, they immediately asked to speak to someone higher up so steps may have been skipped there as well. In a perfect world, a flow-chart and the ability to read would be all that is needed at a help desk...but also in that world the help desk wouldn't be needed since everything would be simple and nothing would ever mess up.
I understand how a help desk works, I been in this business longer then you imagine. I been in it before ATM, working for various telecom industries. You do not need to explain to me how it works, I know how it SHOULD work, and volt does not do that. If you want a standard tier 1 call, let us go back to this particular example once again, when the question of "What operating system is it?" and they answered SBS 2003, well obviously the guy has not a god damn clue of anything of the innards of it. He should've chucked it on over, perhaps saving maybe an hour or 2 there, then idiot #2 came in, idiot #3, and idiot #4, sure the REMOTE possibility came that #2-4, ASSUMED that something was covered, but that just shows blatant inexperience, anyone in the IT industry, whether your desktop support, helpdesk, admin, IS manager - YOU never EVER assume, you work from the group up. Hell its the foundation of the OSI layer (However practical that is)
I am sure your brother in law, and irish, are fine employees of the company and represent them well. I myself use to work for a company similar to volt back in the telecom days - until I realized, the only way to make money in god blessed America and its capitalistic ways - is to be in business for yourself. Which was the best decision I have ever made in my life.
I don't stand for particular business models and practicies, and volt seems to be following these off not only this experience, but others, I tried finding a .NET developer several months ago, Volt found and sent me 15 candidates, NONE of them worked with it before, ever. How completely idiotic is that? I payed volt great money for there "excellence in service, dedication, and human resource management" what I recieved was just pitiful garbage. I had better luck posting an add on craigslist.org and reading through resumes myself, which takes my valuable time.
I don't like reading resumes, they bore me to death, that is why I attempted to use volt, and several other agencies, so that bad taste of recruiters are left with me never to be shaken from.
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BrianGriffin81;179477 wrote:
I understand how a help desk works, I been in this business longer then you imagine. I been in it before ATM, working for various telecom industries. You do not need to explain to me how it works, I know how it SHOULD work, and volt does not do that. If you want a standard tier 1 call, let us go back to this particular example once again, when the question of "What operating system is it?" and they answered SBS 2003, well obviously the guy has not a god damn clue of anything of the innards of it. He should've chucked it on over, perhaps saving maybe an hour or 2 there, then idiot #2 came in, idiot #3, and idiot #4, sure the REMOTE possibility came that #2-4, ASSUMED that something was covered, but that just shows blatant inexperience, anyone in the IT industry, whether your desktop support, helpdesk, admin, IS manager - YOU never EVER assume, you work from the group up. Hell its the foundation of the OSI layer (However practical that is)I am sure your brother in law, and irish, are fine employees of the company and represent them well. I myself use to work for a company similar to volt back in the telecom days - until I realized, the only way to make money in god blessed America and its capitalistic ways - is to be in business for yourself. Which was the best decision I have ever made in my life.
I don't stand for particular business models and practicies, and volt seems to be following these off not only this experience, but others, I tried finding a .NET developer several months ago, Volt found and sent me 15 candidates, NONE of them worked with it before, ever. How completely idiotic is that? I payed volt great money for there "excellence in service, dedication, and human resource management" what I recieved was just pitiful garbage. I had better luck posting an add on craigslist.org and reading through resumes myself, which takes my valuable time.
I don't like reading resumes, they bore me to death, that is why I attempted to use volt, and several other agencies, so that bad taste of recruiters are left with me never to be shaken from.
First of all let me give you some facts. I worked for volt/vmc for 5 months before being hired on as an FTE at microsoft. I am currently a Tech lead. Our VMC team is considered first line of support and they do a damn good job. On average they escalate less than 3% of cases per period. Volt does an excellent job working on location at MS Fargo. If you want some real information on Sharepoint teams coming to Fargo PM me, I would be more than welcome to help you out. That team has grown vastly with Full time microsoft employees in fargo NOT volt/VMC.
I love how you compared every employee to the ones Volt sent you. Great reading! :icon_scratch:
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BrianGriffin81;179477 wrote:
I tried finding a .NET developer several months ago, Volt found and sent me 15 candidates, NONE of them worked with it before, ever. How completely idiotic is that? I payed volt great money for there "excellence in service, dedication, and human resource management" what I recieved was just pitiful garbage. I had better luck posting an add on craigslist.org and reading through resumes myself, which takes my valuable time.I don't like reading resumes, they bore me to death, that is why I attempted to use volt, and several other agencies, so that bad taste of recruiters are left with me never to be shaken from.
I'm sure that if you've been in "the business" as long as you're implying that you understand that IT/Technology recruiting stinks in general. I've done a bunch of MS FTE interview loops (out in redmond) and these are all people that have gotten past a phone screen and have been flown to see us on our dime. We still can't hire 80-90% of them. If you can solve the recruiting problem in general, MS will pay you whatever you want to solve it for us
Finding good people is hard.. i still get mails from placement agencies asking if I want to work for MS in Redmond In any case, I don't think it's fair to suggest that Volt is some hive of villany or incompetance based on you assuming stuff about the composition of a support team you had no direct experience with, and of your experience trying to get a "good" candidate referred to you.
As an aside, we all have bad days at work in this field, but typically more seasoned professionals are able to remain on task and constructive even when they're working with less than perfect people or organizations. Your posts have been full of lots of steam and a bit of braggadacio; you never know what guy reading this might be your next client until they put two and two together and decide to take their business elsewhere.
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BrianGriffin81;179469 wrote:
I'm a licensed Cisco dealer, therefore, I must keep my CCIE every 2 years, and as a matter of fact they change these tests quite often; August 15th the exam will be entirely different.What's your Number?
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integra_gsr98;179488 wrote:
What's your Number?Is your phone call referring to the needs of a CCIE? If so, I will give you the number to our dispatcher, and depending on your situation, Jayan (CCIE #18350) will take care of it, if it is voice, and myself on data (CCIE # 18485)
888-412-5546 is our (outsourced) dispatch office
If for whatever reason you need my personal contact information, feel free to PM me and I shall reply - please keep it confidential. Which I find so far, after reading some various threads, will be quite difficult to do.
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Didn't you say you moved back to Minneapolis?
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