Company Financials
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PSiedTSi;248973 wrote:
Inflation. You think we are just magically sitting on a pot of money? We have to print it.the phrase used was "paid back". I do not consider inflation a means of getting "paid back" from defunct automakers.
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Briggs&Stratton;248976 wrote:
the phrase used was "paid back". I do not consider inflation a means of getting "paid back" from defunct automakers.No no no...thats WHY there is a discussion whether or not this happens...
If we had the money laying around, we probably would have already done it...
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I believe (I could be wrong) that in the event of bankruptcy or even complete failure all outstanding debts are paid first. A corporation filling bankruptcy means that their assets are liquidated (sold) and the money is used to pay outstanding debts first (employees, banks). The Big Three are asking for the loans because they fear they will not have the liquid assets (cash on hand) to run their day to day business. They have enough invested in equipment, land, buildings to pay these loans back even if their companies completely failed.
I am not, however, saying we should just blindly hand them a bunch of money. I'm not an economist (None of us are). Just like a bank loaning a regular joe money, they need reasonable assurance that they will get their money back (Insurance, proof of income, collateral). God help us if we were exposed to so much public scrutiny to get a mortgage.
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uman44;248987 wrote:
I believe (I could be wrong) that in the event of bankruptcy or even complete failure all outstanding debts are paid first. A corporation filling bankruptcy means that their assets are liquidated (sold) and the money is used to pay outstanding debts first (employees, banks). The Big Three are asking for the loans because they fear they will not have the liquid assets (cash on hand) to run their day to day business. They have enough invested in equipment, land, buildings to pay these loans back even if their companies completely failed.Exactly. Think of how many billions of dollars they have in assets.
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who cares.....
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DelSlow;248990 wrote:
Exactly. Think of how many billions of dollars they have in assets.im trying to.
You think they have 34 billion in assets? I dont know that they do or dont. Sounds like alot tho.
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there is a chance you are correct. Chance.
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Briggs&Stratton;248947 wrote:
I agree that they are overpaid, from what I know. That said, if I wasnt a student and there was an assembly plant in ND paying $70 an hour, I would definately jump on that. I dont begrudge the workers for getting paid what they do, but I do begrudge the union and the system that allowed them to get paid what they do.And the workers do what they are told to do. I dont consider GM products "inferior" but evidently most people do, so presuming they they are "inferior" (as the general concensus elects), the workers just assemble what they are told to assemble, even if it is crap. Im sure they would prefer to be making a quality product, but I think they are prepared to ride the $70 an hour train as long as they can, even if that consists of making a so-called "crappy" product.
And there is really no sense for the workers to let their pride get to them and quit because their toil is "inferior" because a few workers quitting will make no difference at all because there will be a long line of other people that would love to fill their spot for $70 an hour, especially in the Detroit area. From what I understand, the Detroit/Flint area is extremely poverty and unemployment stricken. Yes, probably because many are lazy, but not all.
You're an idiot. $70/hr is NOT their takehome pay. As I previously mentioned, that is the BURDEN rate. Come back when you understand what I just posted.
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millions of people out of jobs is a good reason to implement marshal law
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MisterCMK;249051 wrote:
You're an idiot. $70/hr is NOT their takehome pay. As I previously mentioned, that is the BURDEN rate. Come back when you understand what I just posted.I didnt go off of anything you said, if you were referencing to something eariler I missed it.
"Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)"
this is from a different thread, posted by DaveH and thats what I was going by.
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The UAW workers do get paid a lot for what they do (around $28/hr average salary) but the benefits they get are what is really killing the auto companies. I think all my benefits added up probably are around $20k, and we have very good benefits. If you run the numbers the average UAW worker gets $87k in benefits. wtf ?
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
Briggs&Stratton;249075 wrote:
I didnt go off of anything you said, if you were referencing to something eariler I missed it."Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)"
this is from a different thread, posted by DaveH and thats what I was going by.
You were speaking as though the burden rate was the same as the hourly take home pay, which it is not. Just a misunderstanding I guess.
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If I recall correctly, the big three already has a loan approved of $25 Billion and they are asking for more money ($34 Billion) The big three play a large role in other jobs as well, i.e., in-direct & direct suppliers, dealerships, etc. If the big 3 fail, you could also see a lot more businesses fail or lose money. When a business sees themselves losing money, normally they cut jobs to reduce cost. If we look at it from a average joe person, if we are an employed worker who is in a direct relationship with the big 3, we could see our jobs in jeapordy. People like a salesperson at a dealership, an associate at a parts supplier, etc. Congress just wants to see their business plan before they approve the $$$ to make sure the big 3 are not just putting themselves into more hurt than they need. With unemployment at higher levels than what it was back in 2001 during our last recession, I am sure the last thing the government wishes to see is more jobs being lost increasing the unemployment levels. In November of 2008, we lost over 500,000 jobs, and December isn't going to be looking much better. Economists believe we won't see a turn around until the 2nd quarter of 2009. Projected sales of this holiday season are not going to be as high as they have been in the recent years since people are being conservative with their $$$money, or they are just too broke to buy anything. But to stay on topic, the government is pushing to see that the big 3 push to create more fuel-efficient vehicles. I don't remember what the requirement or idea was, but there was something to be enforced by 2015 of a really high-mileage vehicle. I want to say nearly 200 miles per gallon, but that seems so far-fetched right now. Bail out or not, we will see the big 3 cutting work force.. I think the bail out will reduce the amount of employees reduced since they will be able to afford their day-to-day expenses.
Another solution for the big 3 would be to reduce the burden costs/wages. For some, it may be better to keep your jobs at a reduced pay level versus no job at all.
However, I find it funny that CEOs didn't think they would be criticized for taking private jets to Washington, when they are looking for a bailout. Its exactly what Congress is trying to prove, that the big 3 have a lot of wasteful spending.
SNL did a skit on the big 3 on how they drove their hybrids to Washington, and made fun of how they all broke down on teh way. Dead batteries, etc. -
I think that the unions are overpaid but labor is only 10% of their problems...I dont think that they should get bailed out either but i think the after effects would be fucking crazy if they didnt give them any money.its not just the united states that would be affected and it would trickle down to lets parts stores going down.Its not just gm ford and chrysler going down its the stores, all the mechanics, book keepers salesman/women, manufactures of factory and aftermarket parts and so on and so on you have to look at the WHOLE picture not just the dumbasses that got themselves in the situation.I do agree that it would be a disaster if these companys do fail.There is no right answer to this.
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