2nd Amendment loss-- Eric Holder confirmation hearing happening RIGHT NOW. CALL DC

[24valvenotak]

This post is deleted!

[StangerBanger96]

24valvenotak;256220 wrote:
if you feel like you have to carry a gun around for protection you should make a new set of friends and refrain from dealing coke.

if i cant smoke a cig in a vented glass box at the petro with my dad when he is in town anymore you cant own an assault rifle. sounds fair to me.

The people carrying guns around legally are some of the safest people in the country. They are also the ones you should hope to have around when some idiot decides to try kill someone at the mall/school/wherever because they'd be able to deal with the killer MUCH faster than any police/swat force could.

PSiedTSi;256229 wrote:
Yeah, but you have a choice to go sit in a smoke filled room vs. getting mowed down at a school, mall, gas station...etc

Not saying I agree with banning guns...but theres another side to the story. The ban on ARs is to protect other people, what is the ban on smoking for?

They banned guns that were used in less than 1% of crimes. They were banned purely on how they looked, not on how they operated. Rifles used for hunting are more powerful than the guns that were banned in the AWB.

24valvenotak;256232 wrote:
not if you have a choice to work the smoking section, it has doors that open and shut by motion, and the room has an air exchanger in it.

sounds harmless to me. less harmless then a felon with a gun.

[QUOTE=integra_gsr98;256230]Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Criminals will be criminals, regardless of what tools they have available to them.
If more smokers wanted to smoke inside, more of them should have voted against it.[QUOTE=integra_gsr98;256230]

so im voting to ban guns.

Actually you're wrong, the number of people killed each year by tobacco blows away (no pun intended) the number of people killed by guns.

Last time I checked 438,000 (tobacco related deaths) > ~30,000 (total gun related deaths) > 15,000 (non suicide gun related deaths)

Then there is cars, which are also not a right to own, that kill more people than guns.

[Trafik Jamz]

I'm asking just to see everyones opinion here on the 2nd amendment:

Where does it end? What weapons (if any) should be controlled/illegal for a private citizen to own? The wording of the 2nd amendment is as follows "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

By definition then, any weapon from an rock to a nuclear armament should be permissible under the constitution. I think most of us can agree that a nuke is not what the framers of the constitution had in mind....but what did they have in mind? Muzzle loaded weapons? Canons? Lever action rifles? Bolt Action rifles? Revolvers? Semi-automatic pistols? Semi-automatic rifles or shotguns? Fully automatic rifles/shotguns? Grenades? Rocket Propelled Grenades? C4 Plastic Explosives? Land mines? Fighter jets? Bombers? M1-A1 tanks? Tomahawk Cruise Missiles? Scud missiles? Chemical Weapons? Biological Weapons? Nuclear Weapons? Sharks w/ Fricken Laser Beams attached to their craniums?

I'm looking for a serious answer on this one please. No flaming, just a direct answer because I'm betting even the most die-hard gun owners are going to disagree here.

[Trafik Jamz]

StangerBanger96;256245 wrote:
They banned guns that were used in less than 1% of crimes. They were banned purely on how they looked, not on how they operated. Rifles used for hunting are more powerful than the guns that were banned in the AWB.

So, in your opinion, they would have been better off banning pistols? Say a 9mm or something as they are used far more than AK-47's and AR15's?

FWIW, I agree with you, I'm just trying to figure out everyones POV on this.

[smtomps1955]

The smoking ban was the dumbest thing..one more thing for people to bitch about thats all it was..although personally i didnt like going out to eat and people blowing smoke around, but in a bar come on...

As far as banning guns i think its BS, i guess i feel that people have certain rights, like smoking at a bar, then you say people have to the right to good health, go the fuck somewhere else then and stop bitching about it and go back to dealing with it like you use to cause im sure your doing way more unhealthy things to your body than smoking, like killing your liver..oh hey wait lets ban alcohol again and let people smoke back inside...ignorant people

/rant

[integra_gsr98]

Trafik Jamz;256254 wrote:
So, in your opinion, they would have been better off banning pistols? Say a 9mm or something as they are used far more than AK-47's and AR15's?

FWIW, I agree with you, I'm just trying to figure out everyones POV on this.

The bans should not exist because in the end the only people they harm are the citizens who legally and rightfully purchase firearms. Criminals will be criminals, period.

[24valvenotak]

i think if you feel like you have to carry a gun your paranoid. its one thing to have a rifle and go hunting and trap shooting, thats a whole different story. do you really want some dude with a pistol trying to diffuse a hostage situation? i dont. i want him to sit down and shut up like everyone else instead of playing rambo trying to be the hero.

my point about the smoking thing was people's rights are already being hindered but nobody cares until its about something which involves them or something they enjoy. its like seatbelt tickets. shouldnt it be your right to choose? wear it or dont. allow people to smoke here or dont. carry a gun or dont. where do you draw the line? apparently everyone thinks its with guns. i think its a bit late now.

[KA-T_240]

I do not see anything wrong with Assault Rifles.

A gun is a gun! The shape, looks, size and all that should not matter. I feel that a fully auto weapon should not be legal for the general public to own. Someone that wants to kill people will do it whether it is with a 9mm, .22, AR15/AK/other "assault rifles", .308, or a Barrett .50.

There should be some more gun control regulations. I think if you own a gun you should have to take a safety class, and show that you know how to use it. I do not want to be the person shot buy some idiot shoot there gun for the first time.

[integra_gsr98]

24valvenotak;256265 wrote:
i think if you feel like you have to carry a gun your paranoid. its one thing to have a rifle and go hunting and trap shooting, thats a whole different story. do you really want some dude with a pistol trying to diffuse a hostage situation? i dont. i want him to sit down and shut up like everyone else instead of playing rambo trying to be the hero.

If you truly understood the concept of conceal and carry you would realize that people (myself included) who go through the time and make the investment that it takes in order to get the permit(s), understand the ramifications of carrying a weapon and are generally much calmer than you think.

First of all, it is not a person with a CCW's job to play "cop" nor should they ever think they need to. Consider it insurance. How many times have you ever had to use your car insurance for the months or years that you have paid for it. You hope to never have to use that in the same way that those of us who carry hope to never have to draw a weapon. It is an insurance policy that if someone were to attempt to harm myself, or someone I care about that I have the ability to stop the threat.

There was a statistic out there that something like 1% of CCW holders will ever have to draw their gun, and that 8 out of 10 of those 1% who do draw the situation will be diffused without ever pulling the trigger.

[integra_gsr98]

KA-T_240;256267 wrote:
I do not see anything wrong with Assault Rifles.

A gun is a gun! The shape, looks, size and all that should not matter. I feel that a fully auto weapon should not be legal for the general public to own. Someone that wants to kill people will do it whether it is with a 9mm, .22, AR15/AK/other "assault rifles", .308, or a Barrett .50.

There should be some more gun control regulations. I think if you own a gun you should have to take a safety class, and show that you know how to use it. I do not want to be the person shot buy some idiot shoot there gun for the first time.

Why should a law abiding citizen be unable to own a fully automatic weapon? What harm is that weapon going to bring to you? If someone wants to do 30rd mag dumps at 50 cents a round all day, let them. It's their money.

Also why should someone have to take a safety class? I already had to take hunter safety when I was a child, and I have shot guns since I was a child. Why should the state have to oversee another program that in the end does nothing for crime but costs tax payers more money. If you are at a range and someone is not being safe, say something to the operators of the range, or if it is public and there is nobody else there, leave.

[24valvenotak]

integra_gsr98;256269 wrote:
If you truly understood the concept of conceal and carry you would realize that people (myself included) who go through the time and make the investment that it takes in order to get the permit(s), understand the ramifications of carrying a weapon and are generally much calmer than you think.

First of all, it is not a person with a CCW's job to play "cop" nor should they ever think they need to. Consider it insurance. How many times have you ever had to use your car insurance for the months or years that you have paid for it. You hope to never have to use that in the same way that those of us who carry hope to never have to draw a weapon. It is an insurance policy that if someone were to attempt to harm myself, or someone I care about that I have the ability to stop the threat.

There was a statistic out there that something like 1% of CCW holders will ever have to draw their gun, and that 8 out of 10 of those 1% who do draw the situation will be diffused without ever pulling the trigger.

all i heard was :machinegun:

[24valvenotak]

integra_gsr98;256273 wrote:
Why should the state have to oversee another program that in the end does nothing for crime but costs tax payers more money.

ahem smoking

[Afsil80]

integra_gsr98;256262 wrote:
The bans should not exist because in the end the only people they harm are the citizens who legally and rightfully purchase firearms. Criminals will be criminals, period.

I'll word this differently for the people who can't read between the lines.

Criminals will not give a second thought to NOT register a gun they intend to use for a crime. Therefore, any laws and background checks serve no purpose to the person they are ideally out to prevent from possessing such weapons.

That being said, is there a need for someone to have a fully automatic assault rifle? Probably not, but as Americans, it's our Second Amendment right to have access to such a thing.

The people ruining this amendment never cared about the law to begin with.

[24valvenotak]

Afsil80;256276 wrote:
I'll word this differently for the people who can't read between the lines.

Criminals will not give a second thought to NOT register a gun they intend to use for a crime. Therefore, any laws and background checks serve no purpose to the person they are ideally out to prevent from possessing such weapons.

That being said, is there a need for someone to have a fully automatic assault rifle? Probably not, but as Americans, it's our Second Amendment right to have access to such a thing.

The people ruining this amendment never cared about the law to begin with.

no but if your going to buy one on an impulse and shoot up the post office then turn it on yourself it would be nice to know there is SOMETHING out there to hinder them?

just because it was a good idea 200 years ago to carry a gun around doesnt mean it needs to be now. i mean, slavery sounded like a good idea

[Afsil80]

But that's the point.

Who is going to buy an assault rifle, and take the time and money to get their class 3 weapons permit JUST to go do that?

The person of that mental capacity (or lack of) will make an illegal purchase without registering the gun, and they will commit the crime.

[darkelvis]

Afsil80;256276 wrote:
That being said, is there a need for someone to have a fully automatic assault rifle? Probably not, but as Americans, it's our Second Amendment right to have access to such a thing.

The second amendment also gives people the right (as chuck pointed out) to own C4, land mines, nukes, fully armed tanks, etc.... where does the line need to be drawn?

[KA-T_240]

integra_gsr98;256273 wrote:
Why should a law abiding citizen be unable to own a fully automatic weapon? What harm is that weapon going to bring to you? If someone wants to do 30rd mag dumps at 50 cents a round all day, let them. It's their money.

Also why should someone have to take a safety class? I already had to take hunter safety when I was a child, and I have shot guns since I was a child. Why should the state have to oversee another program that in the end does nothing for crime but costs tax payers more money. If you are at a range and someone is not being safe, say something to the operators of the range, or if it is public and there is nobody else there, leave.

You can own a fully auto weapon as a law abiding citizen. You have to fill out lots of paper work and get the license stuff done. I would love to have a machine gun.

Hunters Saftey/Gun safety is alot of the same stuff. Just like the CC permit class you have to take. The people I would be worried about is not going to be the guy next to you at the range, it would be the lady next to you at Best Buy with a loaded pistol in her purse with the safety off that could go off on accident if something got moved right in the purse.

[integra_gsr98]

And according to the law in order to have explosive devices they have to be registered with the ATF, proper paperwork, tax stamps, etc. You can't just buy this stuff off of the shelf at your local store.

[integra_gsr98]

KA-T_240;256286 wrote:
You can own a fully auto weapon as a law abiding citizen. You have to fill out lots of paper work and get the license stuff done. I would love to have a machine gun.

Hunters Saftey/Gun safety is alot of the same stuff. Just like the CC permit class you have to take. The people I would be worried about is not going to be the guy next to you at the range, it would be the lady next to you at Best Buy with a loaded pistol in her purse with the safety off that could go off on accident if something got moved right in the purse.

I know law abiding citizens can own an automatic weapon. You said above that you didn't think people should be able to own them.

The lady next to you in best buy with her gun in her purse needed to take a class in order for it to legally be there. If it's not, she is breaking the law and is a criminal. Again proof that people who are going to commit a criminal act are going to do it regardless of what the law states.

[Trafik Jamz]

integra_gsr98;256287 wrote:
And according to the law in order to have explosive devices they have to be registered with the ATF, proper paperwork, tax stamps, etc. You can't just buy this stuff off of the shelf at your local store.

So wait....they make you jump through hoops to get something that is clearly spelled out as being a legal right in the 2nd Amendment? Those bastards!!!!

/end sarcasm...but seriously that was the point I was trying to make with my questions earlier in the thread. I'm not saying that any of it should be illegal (well maybe nukes and full scale military armament...) but at what point do you draw the line? I'm ok with any gun, regardless of caliber or look, being 100% legal for anyone that is willing to fill out the background check as long as it is not "military scale" (aka fully automatic). I don't think background checks are a bad thing at all however, as it will deter "heat of the moment" crimes a bit perhaps. Of course, you and I both know that its not that hard to find someone willing to sell you a gun (new or used) w/o a background check, but it's not that hard to find drugs either and I don't think we should take narcotics laws off the books necessarily just because they are easy to find anyway and the criminals will find them either way...

Besides, the first few words of the 2nd amendment make reference to <u>"A well REGULATED militia"</u>...wouldn't it make sense to say that the framers of the constitution had the future in mind when they stated it that way? That yes, the right to bear arms is there, but it is not without regulation? IDK, I'm by no means a political scholar or historian, I just interpret things as I see them.

And before everyone starts bitching about check being the whacked out lefty that wants guns banned, please realize that I don't. I own 2 DPMS AR-15's now, an AK-47 a MAK-90 and a small assortment of handguns and a number of deer hunting rifles and a couple shot guns. I've probably put more rounds of lead through my guns before I was 18 than most will in their life.

I see nothing wrong with requiring background checks. I see nothing wrong with requiring a gun safety OR hunters safety class before giving someone a CCW permit or even before selling someone a gun at all....I have to have hunters safety to trap a muskrat, there is no reason someone shouldn't have to have some sort of gun training before putting a .22 in their purse.