Pre stimulus Fed. printing.
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Trafik Jamz;258908 wrote:
I would have sworn that back in '04 when I posted my reasons for not voting for Bush that you said you couldn't care less about deficit spending because it didn't matter.http://fargostreet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10385&highlight=deficit#post10385
LOLZ!?! First, we aren't discussing deficit spending, we are discussing the incredible amount of money that the fed is printing. Second, I'm guessing you didn't read the link you posted or else you are just spinning like a top.
Trafik Jamz;258908 wrote:
Second point is that the money that is printed is backed by Treasury Bills/Bonds/Notes. http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/01/04/making-sense-of-treasury-securities-treasury-bills-notes-and-bonds/ <---decent explanation on how this all works....and as you can see by the definition here, this is how we get in debt with other countries, they buy up the bonds/bills/notes and we spend the money.The point is that the astronomical amount of money they are printing right now is going to come back and bite us in the ass. It's going to devalue the dollar and bring on inflation a little ways down the road.
Trafik Jamz;258908 wrote:
So, the question now Dave is which is it? Do you want us to pay off our debt or doesn't it matter?I still have no idea what makes you think I don't want to pay off the debt. Please quote anything in that link that states that. The only thing that even remotely resembles that is when I said
"Ok, seriously now... to pay off some of the deficit (I'm not so sure that running in the red a little is a bad thing), we have to do 2 things. Lower spending and increase income (duh)."
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
DaveH;258915 wrote:
LOLZ!?! First, we aren't discussing deficit spending, we are discussing the incredible amount of money that the fed is printing. Second, I'm guessing you didn't read the link you posted or else you are just spinning like a top.I guess I based it on the first line of that and didn't read the rest. My bad there...
But isn't deficit spending basically doing just that...spending more than we have assets for?
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861688951/deficit_spending.html
The point is that the astronomical amount of money they are printing right now is going to come back and bite us in the ass. It's going to devalue the dollar and bring on inflation a little ways down the road.
Agreed, dollar devaluation is a bad thing
I still have no idea what makes you think I don't want to pay off the debt. Please quote anything in that link that states that. The only thing that even remotely resembles that is when I said
[QUOTE]"Ok, seriously now... to pay off some of the deficit (I'm not so sure that running in the red a little is a bad thing), we have to do 2 things. Lower spending and increase income (duh)."[/QUOTE]
How about this line?
DaveH;10385 wrote:
IMO, the first flaw in this is that we have to pay it back.... Heck, none of the countries that owe us billions of dollars ever plan on paying it back!
This article in wikipedia (yeah, I know...copy paste by chuck again...and to wikipedia even...thank god for google...yada yada....) is worth a read as well.
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DrifterExtreme;258898 wrote:
god i could go on all day about will and his shitty political views..... seriously he is retardedAnd what did I do/say? What are my shitty beliefs? Humor me. I'm about 90% sure I at least know what I'm talking about with my political beliefs. That's the great thing about this country, I can believe whatever I want, and you can believe whatever it is that you want. Cool huh? Next time you talk about something ill be sure to chime in and call you retarded, as you are vastly more educated in the matters and the concept of Economics than I.
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LOL
here a psht, there psht, everywhere a psht psht
PVC SQUAD MEMBER #2- 95 CIVIC EX- DD 320whp on a mustang dyno
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the only decent explanation i have heard for spending a ton of money is to avoid deflation. nobody buying anything will lower prices to the point where businesses cant or wont invest any longer.
thats the beauty of economics... nobody is right until somebody is wrong.
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DelSlow;258927 wrote:
And what did I do/say? What are my shitty beliefs? Humor me. I'm about 90% sure I at least know what I'm talking about with my political beliefs. That's the great thing about this country, I can believe whatever I want, and you can believe whatever it is that you want. Cool huh? Next time you talk about something ill be sure to chime in and call you retarded, as you are vastly more educated in the matters and the concept of Economics than I.Do not question the great Groshong. He will have a temper tantrum and start to compare who has more blocks and who he feels has more mechanical ability. It is really rather sad to watch someone as old as he is bawl like a 5 year old.
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DelSlow;258927 wrote:
Next time you talk about something ill be sure to chime in and call you retarded, as you are vastly more educated in the matters and the concept of Economics than I.As if you don't already? :icon_rr: ...You can sure name off facts of history like non other (I am a witness of Will doing that...crazy shit)...But as far as common sense applied to economics, you have no sense...History and common sense go hand and hand. One isn't agains the other.
So...Please start naming off the reasons why to vote for Franken because he is so great, non of us should be able to argue against your point(s). You have all the negative to say against a lot of our points, yet you have no inparticular argument besides a joke that you voted for the Dems...In essance, please elaborate on all of our "stupidity."
I'm all ears...Talk me into why a person should trust Franken... Besides government ran everything....
P.S. Is is just me, or does this graph just scream stagflation!?
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You wanna bitch about Bush compounding the deficit? Check out that sweet 92x,xxx,xxx,xxx economic stimulus plan this Obama guy came up with. Thats 200 billion more than that retard bush spent. You thought the last one was loaded with pork? Take a good look at the new one, which includes 88 million dollars to move a department to a new building, and another 300 million to update the federal vehicle fleet with hybrids. Wouldn't this be a good time for the auto industry to start paying back those nice loans? Why should the government even have to pay for those cars? Or is the Fed going with Toyotas as they know they will last longer anyway? Im sure our country will not survive without spending millions of dollars on updating the smithsonian?
Like i previously said, this thing isn't going to be fixed by printing more money, or buying a new fleet of vehicles and plunging us further into debt. It will not be saved by fear mongering the American people into calling their Congressman and supporting a pork laden stimulus bill. It will not be saved by blatantly lying to the American people on national television and saying that this new stimulus bill does not have any earmarks.
Its going to be fixed by people starting to live within their means, starting to be smart with their money (average american household has 10,000$ in CC debt). Its going to be saved by boards of directors voting no to increasing already ridiculous CEO salaries. It will be saved by not shipping our jobs overseas to foreign labor markets. Foreign job markets are growing from American corporations. It will be saved by putting into office candidates who will not be bought by special interest groups, and no longer tolerating our dependence on foreign oil. Reducing foreign aid will save billions of dollars every month, We need DOMESTIC aid. These things, fundamental every day practices are going to save this thing, not throwing around money that we don't have.
As an American who gives a shit about his country, i have to believe that we want to save this thing, but i also believe that we are taking the wrong path to a solution with printing even more of our devalued dollar. Have we not learned from history? Did we forget that Germany (prior to WWI) had printed so much money that it was more valuable as a fuel for burning than for buying things? (extreme example of overprinting) Have we forgotten what it was like for our dollar to be out valued by even the canadian dollar in world markets? (if it isn't still).
Its time to stop pretending to be the big brother to the world, and start focusing on what's going on at home. By fixing our own very apparent problems, we will be helping the world out more than sending money that we don't have.
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torbs;259083 wrote:
As if you don't already? :icon_rr: ...You can sure name off facts of history like non other (I am a witness of Will doing that...crazy shit)...But as far as common sense applied to economics, you have no sense...History and common sense go hand and hand. One isn't agains the other.So...Please start naming off the reasons why to vote for Franken because he is so great, non of us should be able to argue against your point(s). You have all the negative to say against a lot of our points, yet you have no inparticular argument besides a joke that you voted for the Dems...In essance, please elaborate on all of our "stupidity."
I'm all ears...Talk me into why a person should trust Franken... Besides government ran everything....
P.S. Is is just me, or does this graph just scream stagflation!?
?? Read. I just told you why I would vote for him...I haven't read up on anything that he has wanted because it doesn't matter that much to me because I'm not a Minn resident-thus I don't care (bad excuse, I know. But its true.) . And please gimme an example of my lack of common sense based Economics please. I'm not recalling any instance as to where I never used common sense when talking/dealing with the matter.
'On out "stupidity"?' When did I ever say anything about what you think is stupid? Matt, and you actually, was the one that called me out basically (and in Matt's case; directly) that my views, political stance, and what I believe in is in fact stupid. So i guess the real question is: Why is what I be believe in stupid?
ps. I do rule at random stupid facts that no one should know. Donka
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Let's talk history and tax cuts for a second Torbs...
Prior to the start of the Depression, Hoover enacted numerous tax cuts, which cut the top income tax rate from 73% to 24%. When combined with the sharp decline in incomes during the early depression, the result was a serious deficit in the federal budget. (NOTE: I am not calling for taxes to be raised to 73%!!)
I found this site entertaining...don't necessarily agree with all off it..but entertaining anyway:
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009010208/firing-back-mythbusting-obama-recovery-package -
GarageAlchemist;259089 wrote:
You wanna bitch about Bush compounding the deficit? Check out that sweet 92x,xxx,xxx,xxx economic stimulus plan this Obama guy came up with. Thats 200 billion more than that retard bush spent. You thought the last one was loaded with pork? Take a good look at the new one, which includes 88 million dollars to move a department to a new building, and another 300 million to update the federal vehicle fleet with hybrids. Wouldn't this be a good time for the auto industry to start paying back those nice loans? Why should the government even have to pay for those cars? Or is the Fed going with Toyotas as they know they will last longer anyway? Im sure our country will not survive without spending millions of dollars on updating the smithsonian?Like i previously said, this thing isn't going to be fixed by printing more money, or buying a new fleet of vehicles and plunging us further into debt. It will not be saved by fear mongering the American people into calling their Congressman and supporting a pork laden stimulus bill. It will not be saved by blatantly lying to the American people on national television and saying that this new stimulus bill does not have any earmarks.
Its going to be fixed by people starting to live within their means, starting to be smart with their money (average american household has 10,000$ in CC debt). Its going to be saved by boards of directors voting no to increasing already ridiculous CEO salaries. It will be saved by not shipping our jobs overseas to foreign labor markets. Foreign job markets are growing from American corporations. It will be saved by putting into office candidates who will not be bought by special interest groups, and no longer tolerating our dependence on foreign oil. Reducing foreign aid will save billions of dollars every month, We need DOMESTIC aid. These things, fundamental every day practices are going to save this thing, not throwing around money that we don't have.
As an American who gives a shit about his country, i have to believe that we want to save this thing, but i also believe that we are taking the wrong path to a solution with printing even more of our devalued dollar. Have we not learned from history? Did we forget that Germany (prior to WWI) had printed so much money that it was more valuable as a fuel for burning than for buying things? (extreme example of overprinting) Have we forgotten what it was like for our dollar to be out valued by even the canadian dollar in world markets? (if it isn't still).
Its time to stop pretending to be the big brother to the world, and start focusing on what's going on at home. By fixing our own very apparent problems, we will be helping the world out more than sending money that we don't have.
if your going to shit on obama then shit on bush, at least make a point somewhere in the middle.
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did you read the whole thing?
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GarageAlchemist;259281 wrote:
did you read the whole thing?yup, heres what i got out of it:
change the belief and value system of thousands of people in this country because they are flawed (i stand corrected, that is a good point.)
obama should be given an allowance, not a credit card.
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Grr;259240 wrote:
wow, i have never in my life read such a far left, right-demonizing piece of material. I would have to disagree with every point on that page, please dont post anymore of that blatant misconception chuckHey, I never said I agreed with it...just threw it out there. If the right can throw their propaganda out there, there is no reason the left can't counter it.
EDIT: The truth is somewhere in between where you and I are not very far apart on...believe it or not.
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