In a shocking turn of events
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I read what Grr posted as "Bring it to the appropriate people and we'll see what we can work with, at present I (being Obama) am not inclined to make any changes without them being formally brought forth and debated amongst those writing the bill."
And as for Americans being against the bill....perhaps the latest polls state otherwise:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114202/Obama-Upper-Hand-Stimulus-Fight.aspx
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This post is deleted!
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So to that I'd say that they ARE doing what their constituents want....at least to a degree.
And for CLARITY (something I don't see anyone else posting) here is a competing poll showing that they want it passed, but with changes.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114097/Americans-Support-Stimulus-Major-Changes.aspx
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Trafik Jamz;259907 wrote:
So to that I'd say that they ARE doing what their constituents want....at least to a degree.And for CLARITY (something I don't see anyone else posting) here is a competing poll showing that they want it passed, but with changes.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114097/Americans-Support-Stimulus-Major-Changes.aspx
All those polls show is that Americans feel that some kind of stimulus bill needs to be passed. However, it does not go into anything about what should actually be in the stimulus bill. Those polls are very generalized and one cannot make definitive claims on specific things using those polls as reference.
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Right, which brings me back to my original point. The republicans haven't stepped up with an alternative bill.
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Exactly my point. There is no longer a defining distinction between the two parties in REALITY. In principle, sure, but no one follows their principles. Sitting on your ass is not leading. Grandstanding/bitching/whining will accomplish nothing. They are the MINORITY party. At best they can hope to shape policies/bills, but they really don't have a shot at creating them 100% according to their ideology. Politics is a game of give and take. When you are facing a potential super-majority against you, your best shot is to try and make sure it isn't swinging just too far away from your beliefs...and again, doing nothing doesn't accomplish shit in my eyes.
And I'm 100% convinced that we can not tax cut our way out of this shit, just as I am 100% convinced that raising taxes is the dumbest thing we could do right now. Actually, let's try the tax cut method for the bottom 95% of wage earners. Leave the top 5% as they are for right now and eliminate 100% of all income tax for anyone making less than $250,000 a year. I'm willing to bet that the "rich" will make more money this way than if we just lowered the income tax on them by another few points. Why? Because it would stimulate spending. If I didn't have to pay a cent in income tax next year or for the next 3 years, I can guarantee that I'd spend/invest a ton more than I do now.
Now can anyone honestly tell me that they think that if the reverse were true and we eliminated income tax on the top 5% only that it would have as positive of an impact on the economy?
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Trafik Jamz;259921 wrote:
And I'm 100% convinced that we can not tax cut our way out of this shit, just as I am 100% convinced that raising taxes is the dumbest thing we could do right now. Actually, let's try the tax cut method for the bottom 95% of wage earners. Leave the top 5% as they are for right now and eliminate 100% of all income tax for anyone making less than $250,000 a year. I'm willing to bet that the "rich" will make more money this way than if we just lowered the income tax on them by another few points. Why? Because it would stimulate spending. If I didn't have to pay a cent in income tax next year or for the next 3 years, I can guarantee that I'd spend/invest a ton more than I do now.Now can anyone honestly tell me that they think that if the reverse were true and we eliminated income tax on the top 5% only that it would have as positive of an impact on the economy?
Why should the top 5% have to pay income tax and those who are making less than that and utilizing more of the services pay nothing?
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i just don't get why this is so hard, NO bailout.
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Trafik Jamz;259921 wrote:
Exactly my point. There is no longer a defining distinction between the two parties in REALITY. In principle, sure, but no one follows their principles. Sitting on your ass is not leading. Grandstanding/bitching/whining will accomplish nothing. They are the MINORITY party. At best they can hope to shape policies/bills, but they really don't have a shot at creating them 100% according to their ideology. Politics is a game of give and take. When you are facing a potential super-majority against you, your best shot is to try and make sure it isn't swinging just too far away from your beliefs...and again, doing nothing doesn't accomplish shit in my eyes.And I'm 100% convinced that we can not tax cut our way out of this shit, just as I am 100% convinced that raising taxes is the dumbest thing we could do right now. Actually, let's try the tax cut method for the bottom 95% of wage earners. Leave the top 5% as they are for right now and eliminate 100% of all income tax for anyone making less than $250,000 a year. I'm willing to bet that the "rich" will make more money this way than if we just lowered the income tax on them by another few points. Why? Because it would stimulate spending. If I didn't have to pay a cent in income tax next year or for the next 3 years, I can guarantee that I'd spend/invest a ton more than I do now.
Now can anyone honestly tell me that they think that if the reverse were true and we eliminated income tax on the top 5% only that it would have as positive of an impact on the economy?
wait wait wait.... you agree with me that it will be the middle class, and the american small businessman that will save this sinking ship, and not big business?
Like i said before, give the CEO's and big wigs more money and they will stuff it in there pockets, give it to the small businessman and middle class americans and we will invest back into our economy/country.
Also this fear mongering bullshit isn't going to cut it as far as i'm concerned. Getting on national television and falsely and telling the American people that we as a country will be screwed if his stimulus bill isn't passed is absolute garbage. This is a very far fetched interpretation of T.R.'s idea of the Bully Pulpit of the President, and is being used in the wrong way. Why would you not use your position to instill confidence in the American people that we will come out of this RECESSION?, which is what it still is, despite what you will hear from left wing sources.
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Why don't we ever use the tactic of "fear mongering" for a positive thing? Put a positive up swing on things, "markets looking up" kinda shit, it's the media that ultimately cause the american panic during this recession, and I think they are responsible for a lot of things wrong with this country(well, extremely big corporation as a whole I suppose, but different reason).
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PSiedTSi;259931 wrote:
Why don't we ever use the tactic of "fear mongering" for a positive thing? Put a positive up swing on things, "markets looking up" kinda shit, it's the media that ultimately cause the american panic during this recession, and I think they are responsible for a lot of things wrong with this country(well, extremely big corporation as a whole I suppose, but different reason).exactly what i was saying.
Oh, and where are we getting 920,000,000,000 Dollars anyway?
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