Are the local schools running the Obama speech to US students next week?
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thrash;287312 wrote:
I don't like them any more or any less than people born here who live off of government money.The laws are written such that there are incentives to do nothing and have babies, no matter where you are born. *That's *the problem. If we stop foreigners from coming here and living off of government money, we will have stopped at most 10% of the problem.
Stopping the 10% is better than stopping 0%.
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Link;287313 wrote:
Stopping the 10% is better than stopping 0%.True, but it might cost more than the 10% we'd save to do this.
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The issue is that it is a misplaced anger. Are you more against illegal aliens getting money/breaks than native-born citizens? Why?
Because people focus on the illegal alien aspect of it, it becomes an immigration issue instead of the unsustainability of our entitlements programs.
The fact of the matter is that this country did very well on essentially an open immigration policy, until it started promising too much stuff to people who didn't perform.
So by making this an immigration problem, people can claim you are racist / xenophobic / whatever and distract the whole problem away from the real issue: entitlements.
[of course, they could also claim you were racist by attacking entitlements, but they'd be factually wrong and showing their implicit racism.]
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thrash;287316 wrote:
The issue is that it is a misplaced anger. Are you more against illegal aliens getting money/breaks than native-born citizens? Why?Because people focus on the illegal alien aspect of it, it becomes an immigration issue instead of the unsustainability of our entitlements programs.
The fact of the matter is that this country did very well on essentially an open immigration policy, until it started promising too much stuff to people who didn't perform.
So by making this an immigration problem, people can claim you are racist / xenophobic / whatever and distract the whole problem away from the real issue: entitlements.
[of course, they could also claim you were racist by attacking entitlements, but they'd be factually wrong and showing their implicit racism.]
Shit, they call me racist if I look at a black guy wrong. what the fuck does it matter any more?
And yes, it may cost more up front Chuck, but look at the money saved in the long run. Instead of paying all this money out to these deadbeat's, they could MAKE MONEY buy forcing this morons to actually get a job. If they don't want to get a job... well gtfo. Simple.
But of course with this being a "free country", shit like this will never go away.
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Holy....way to much to read
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well, the point is that if you miss the ball when making your point/argument, people will be able to dismiss you instead of listen to you. You've got four basic choices:
- get people to listen to you
- do nothing
- Gulch it
- ineffective, quickly-suppressed violence by a lone actor
If your desire is that "people ought to stop freeloading in this country and expecting me to pay for it", mixing that message up with "illegal immigrants ought to stop freeloading" is well.. mixing up the message.
If that isn't what you are angry about.. and illegal aliens getting priviledges/freeloading upsets you more than native-born folks freeloading, i'm curious as to why. As near as I can tell, anyone that was against immigrants getting freebies but was happy with "locals" getting the same freebies is supporting the notion that we should reward people for being good at choosing where they were born. I don't think that's something I'd reward a person for...
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thrash is spot on. The problem isn't that illegals are here taking advantage of our system, but rather the problem is that we have a system that they want to take advantage of. Fix the system and the rest will take care of itself.
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Ok - we agree on the size of the problem. So why the *focus *on illegal immigrants?
It's actually a little bit like making a huge deal about earmark spending. Earmarks are some trivial fraction of total spending, and its money written into the bills anyway. If we cut out 100% of earmarks we'd still be spending ourselves into bankruptcy at an unprecedented rate. But complaining about it appeals to populism and it keeps people distracted from the real issues.
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I didn't intend for the focus to be on the immigrants. My bad.
Yes, it keeps people distracted from the real issue, but why give out free money to those unwilling to find a job and support themselves? Cut the funding on that crap and put it towards something useful to better this country. Yes, it's a small fraction of all the spending, but hey, a dollar is a dollar.
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