Tufte in The Forum
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Ya know something, Stormwalker, you are one hell of a mature guy. Not many people on here would be able to keep your side of this argument as civilized a conversation as you have tried to keep it. Regardless of what people have said in response to your posts, you have remained calm and have refraned from putting people down.
I think people have been a little too quick to raise the racist flag in here and it is, in my opinion, not justified. -
HandoEX wrote:
Ya know something, Stormwalker, you are one hell of a mature guy. Not many people on here would be able to keep your side of this argument as civilized a conversation as you have tried to keep it. Regardless of what people have said in response to your posts, you have remained calm and have refraned from putting people down.
I think people have been a little too quick to raise the racist flag in here and it is, in my opinion, not justified.Thank you Hando. I appreciate that.
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this has been particularly impressive. here i thought i was the only person capable of maintaining a strongly opposed viewpoint on a touchy subject without resorting to ad hominems and name-calling.
good work, this is one storm you managed to navigate well.
i must agree with a large portion of what stormwalker has said. however, if you want to see just why racial profiling CAN be better than the absence of it (at least, in security situations), look at it from a utilitarian point of view.
in london- let's assume the man in the trench coat that was unarmed (explosive device or firearm) and gunned down happens again, it happens 5 times, 10, 30. is it still wrong?
yes.
now, what if one of those 30 men that were gunned down had been carrying an explosive device and getting onto a crowded bus? what would you rather have happen, 1 innocent person dead, or 100?
in my opinion, when it comes to security, i'd rather be responsible for the deaths of 10 innocent people if it means saving 100. -
While I agree that you do handle yourself well, I have to respond at least a little to your list of examples of profiling.
Yes, profiling can be used justly, and it can be done in a manner that is not racially insensitive. If someone is a witness to a crime and they give the police a description (profile) of the criminal, then it is within law enforcements rights to say Ok..."we are looking for a 6'1" White male with brown hair and brown eyes, approximately 225 lbs., approximately 24-32 years of age, driving a white 4 door import car with loud exhaust....last seen in the 32nd Ave S and 25th St locations." I would fully expect to be questioned as I meet that profile. However, if they said "we are looking for a white guy in Fargo with a loud car" I don't think that merits questioning me or anyone else.
Edit: FWIW, I only thought you were an idiot for failing to see my point that I think 100% of cars with loud exhausts should be ticketed, regardless of manufacturer/country of origin.
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DaveH wrote:
Just FYI, this is a pic that one of our surveyors at work sent me from when he was out "working" .... LOL
It was Stephen, wasn't it?
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tjamz wrote:
While I agree that you do handle yourself well, I have to respond at least a little to your list of examples of profiling.Yes, profiling can be used justly, and it can be done in a manner that is not racially insensitive. If someone is a witness to a crime and they give the police a description (profile) of the criminal, then it is within law enforcements rights to say Ok..."we are looking for a 6'1" White male with brown hair and brown eyes, approximately 225 lbs., approximately 24-32 years of age, driving a white 4 door import car with loud exhaust....last seen in the 32nd Ave S and 25th St locations." I would fully expect to be questioned as I meet that profile. However, if they said "we are looking for a white guy in Fargo with a loud car" I don't think that merits questioning me or anyone else.
That is comparing apples to oranges. Lets go into an airport, you get pulled out of line and asked to strip down. Your a white male in a business suit with no criminal record. You have nothing on you and your detained because your name came on a list. Is this proper profiling since you have the same name as someone on the list? Profiling is done by everybody in almost every situation. This is a never ending argument. Some profiling is necessary, some is unfair. No matter how you look at it each and everyone of us profiles something or someone everyday.......
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out there wrote:
this has been particularly impressive. here i thought i was the only person capable of maintaining a strongly opposed viewpoint on a touchy subject without resorting to ad hominems and name-calling.
good work, this is one storm you managed to navigate well.
i must agree with a large portion of what stormwalker has said. however, if you want to see just why racial profiling CAN be better than the absence of it (at least, in security situations), look at it from a utilitarian point of view.
in london- let's assume the man in the trench coat that was unarmed (explosive device or firearm) and gunned down happens again, it happens 5 times, 10, 30. is it still wrong?
yes.
now, what if one of those 30 men that were gunned down had been carrying an explosive device and getting onto a crowded bus? what would you rather have happen, 1 innocent person dead, or 100?
in my opinion, when it comes to security, i'd rather be responsible for the deaths of 10 innocent people if it means saving 100.you are in essence saying that some people's lives are worth more then others. that is where i disagree with everything anyone says who leans on the utilitarian viewpoint. I agree that saving 100 people's lives is important but at what cost? Why is it justifiable that THOSE ten people should have to give up their own lives to save others? Who are you to decide what ten people must give up their right to live for another? If you agree to play god sort of speak the argument gets pretty complicated when stem cell research, abortion, euthenasia, ect gets brought up as a reslut.
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this thread is spinning out of control, I see no solution other than to close it.
Stormwalker, none of this was personal and it was a good debate. Lets just agree to disagree on a number of things, ok?
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