Sounds comps....db mic....any interest?
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fwiw the termlab meter is rather nice, but there is nothing wrong with the audiocontrol meter either. Can they be set up to also do RTA (real time analysis) in 1/3 octave increments? If one can and the other can't, buy the one that can....gives you more tuning/comp options down the road. Things to be careful about...don't drop the calibrated mic! They are expensive to recalibrate.
Good luck starting an organization (even statewide) as many have come and gone over the years (nationally/regionally/locally....just not here locally) and only a few have been profitable.
What kind of guidelines are you going to be setting forth? Are you going to try and have classes similar to USACi or IASCA regarding power classes/speaker sizes or quantities/placement/mic placement/etc.... Are you going to make all competitors use the same reference material (music) or are you going to let each decide for themselves what they want to use? How are you going to base the power ratings of the amps? Bases on what is printed on the amp or what the brochure/owners manual says the amp will put out...also RMS or peak wattage? If RMS is it going to be RMS @ 4 ohm rating or RMS at whatever ohm the system is set up for? Can I place the mic where ever I want or does it have to meet certain criteria (for example, may I place the mic in a port/between the seats and the subs/etc...)? Is the reading going to be weighted (most use A weighting if memory serves)? What frequencies are going to be tested? Just sub frequencies (80Hz and lower) or can I effectively tune my car to resonate at say 125hz using quasi-harmonics and be judged at that point? If you limit the reference material to 80Hz, does the mic automatically ignore frequencies above that point? Are you going to require that the installs meet certain safety standards (fuse within 18" of battery, etc...)? Are you sick of me asking questions yet? When doing the competition is power class determined by just the sub amp or a combo of all the amps in the vehicle (minus the amp in the deck)? I'm sure I have more questions, but this should give you enough to think about...
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are you thinking SPL or SQ?
two totally different monsters there. both can suck the money. both can be rewarding. then again KISS always works. in some classes better than others.
i got the invite with a simple setup. a single 15 and 2 amps from the trunk. there were simple SQ setups there as well. on the other side there were WILD setups.
i will gladly share knowledge i have.
but spend sometime at the competition orgs forums.
USACi
MECA
IASCA
DBDRAG
those are the big players.
you will learn alot about them. and members are not afraid to talk good or bad about what is going on in their area.a cool thing that went over HUGE in 05 was full range SPL. it was called different names in different orgs, but basically they went back to the roots. where you played music for the full 30 seconds vs burps of tones. tougher on gear, but in reality more realistic to what we would experience in our daily rides.
Monty
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fwiw John, I hope you do this, I will even help you get started if you want. I think that DB Dragracing style would go over better than just about anything else around here, its fun to do and entertaining for the crowd. Basically there are 2 cars/teams competing at the same time. each team/car gets 30 seconds to achieve the highest reading (displayed on a digital readout/monitor), highest reading advances to the next round of comp...repeat until only 2 are left in a class.
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i will agree that heads up like dbdrag is cool. it is also odd how it is done. in street class rides are key off in the lanes. totally done on battery power. in super and mod you can run if you choose to. i forget how the new class works. i think both of them are key off as well.
and of course vehicles are all closed up. but it can be exciting as they wait for the others to go and then they try and try to get every bit they can out of what they have to top the other competitor. sometimes successfully sometimes not.
class's are based on number of subs and in the lower classes amps also come into play.
USACi cars can run and can be open if you choose. i think they limited it to 12v volts last year though finally for street class. well 14.4 if running. as many were running 16-18 volt setups. they class based on amp power. it used to be amps rating at 12v 4 ohms, but i think they have changed it with the new amp rating system. but not 100% sure on that.
this can be louder for the crowd as well. this is considered outlaw as mic has freedom to move instead of dash placement as in dbdrag. there is also port and super port wars.not sure on iasca and meca as i have not been to one of them comps.
but you could mix it up or whatever. make it different or make it similar.
Monty
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Yeah, thats the way the last DB Drag and USACi shows that I attended were as well. I just wanted him to think about as many different questions that might be presented to him as possible before he hold his first comp and has to start making exceptions/rules on the spot.
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tjamz wrote:
fwiw the termlab meter is rather nice, but there is nothing wrong with the audiocontrol meter either. Can they be set up to also do RTA (real time analysis) in 1/3 octave increments? If one can and the other can't, buy the one that can....gives you more tuning/comp options down the road. Things to be careful about...don't drop the calibrated mic! They are expensive to recalibrate.Good luck starting an organization (even statewide) as many have come and gone over the years (nationally/regionally/locally....just not here locally) and only a few have been profitable.
What kind of guidelines are you going to be setting forth? Are you going to try and have classes similar to USACi or IASCA regarding power classes/speaker sizes or quantities/placement/mic placement/etc.... Are you going to make all competitors use the same reference material (music) or are you going to let each decide for themselves what they want to use? How are you going to base the power ratings of the amps? Bases on what is printed on the amp or what the brochure/owners manual says the amp will put out...also RMS or peak wattage? If RMS is it going to be RMS @ 4 ohm rating or RMS at whatever ohm the system is set up for? Can I place the mic where ever I want or does it have to meet certain criteria (for example, may I place the mic in a port/between the seats and the subs/etc...)? Is the reading going to be weighted (most use A weighting if memory serves)? What frequencies are going to be tested? Just sub frequencies (80Hz and lower) or can I effectively tune my car to resonate at say 125hz using quasi-harmonics and be judged at that point? If you limit the reference material to 80Hz, does the mic automatically ignore frequencies above that point? Are you going to require that the installs meet certain safety standards (fuse within 18" of battery, etc...)? Are you sick of me asking questions yet? When doing the competition is power class determined by just the sub amp or a combo of all the amps in the vehicle (minus the amp in the deck)? I'm sure I have more questions, but this should give you enough to think about...
Well, I have decided to go with the 2 Sensor Termlab...using a laptop.
Termlap does have the real time analysis.As for guidelines i am thinking of having classes like usaci and IASCA...during competitions i will have competitiors using the same music yes...I will provide the cd for everyone to use.
There will be some divisions with the car running, and some with the car off.
Frequencies will be held probably between 20 and a 80 Hz.
Yes, every competitors system must be safety standards also.
During competition everyone will have 30 seconds to reach their highest SPL.Before every comp eveyone competing will have thier vehicles checked to see what class they are in, check all safety requirements ect...
There will be some different rules for every class...it all depends on the class you are in.^^^ Thats kind of unorganized cuz i was doing other things while typing it but you get somewhat of an idea...i'll keep ya updated.
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The rules that I will be using will be very similar to DBDrag's rules...All of their rules seem to be fair..
How many different classes would you guys want??
Street, Super Street, Extreme, Monster???Probably have classes with 1, 2, 3, and 4 subs...Unless someone has more than 4....dont't know of anyone rigthtnow that has more than 4 right now.
I'll probably be going to Iowa and Wisconsin this summer to see how they organize things and how everything is run.
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i bet you could get ahold of mike the owner of knu konceptz, he has a dual mic meter with 2 tripod stands with displays and i am sure he would be wanting to get rid of it decently cheap since he needs money. i can find out what he wants for it if you are interested.
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sure find out what he wants and what brand it is...i might be interested even though i like the termlab
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yeah i think his mics need to be calibrated or he had messed with the settings before he tested chucks car, because i know the first year he had the meter Fradet beat mikes car in reality, but mike turned up the DB on his car to beat mark. you can either add or subtract 10 DB. It also depends on what mic, mike was using because i believe one is calibrated good and the other isnt. It is a audiocontrol Meter. I talked to him today and he was not sure if wants to sell it yet or not.
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well i like the termlab alot better than the audiocontrol so owell...i think he's the one who brought it to the valley city car show ...and it was way off...
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last year when I hit 150 the mic was inside the port...and it wasn't ID 10's, it was Phoenix Gold 10's
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so this is a start.
just be sure things are pretty clear before the event starts. as many do not like suprises. when you saftey check and class check the vehicles be sure to know what is going on. as some will not care and others will have questions. i am sure i will have some.
box placement, amp power, sensor placement are common things asked.
can a person be inside the car or do they have to operate it from outside with remote or can they run wires out for the head unit?
lots of things to think about.
cannot make everyone happy, but do not need to go pissing everyone off either.as for termlab vs audiocontrol.
the old audiocontrol is crap. supposedly they redid and now have sensors also. since the mics would pic up wind noise and the sensor does not.termlab is nice as it will be accurate run to run and day to day.
RTA is about useless now as i think 03 was the last year that any org used it. i know USACi did not that year, but i think IASCA did for SQ.
good luck with this though. and keep us informed as i would likely run what i have.
Monty
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RTA is useless for a competition I agree, though it can still be useful for tuning (to get you close, after which all fine tuning should be done by ear)
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it depends on how you set the RTA for prelim tuning.
i wish i lived closer to some of my car audio SQ friends. as i am happy with mine as it is for daily, but not near as happy as i am with theirs. theirs is always smoother and less harsh at high freqs compared to mine. so less fatigue on the ears on long sessions and or loud sessions.
music listened to...country, rock, blues, classic. i do listen to hip hop and rap, but not a whole lot. and for that it is hard to set it up to sound good. as it is typically boom boom boom.
now with the rest of the music there are actual instruments to listen to.Monty
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ideally for prelim tuning you run pink noise and set the curve so that there is no more than 3dB of difference from one frequency to the next on the RTA. Then you switch to some sort of reference material (autosound 2000 reference discs, IASCA discs, etc...) and (using a good 1/3 octave EQ) start with just the tweeters playing and TURN DOWN any spots that sound off, very seldom should you turn up the frequencies, then move to just the midranges, then the midbass (if applicable) then just the subs. (You'd be amazed at the noises/distortion that gets covered up when you try and tune the whole system with all the speakers hooked up at the same time). After you've made the adjustments on the individual components, its a good time to hook everything back up and do a final tune using the reference material on the full range of speakers so that you can tone down frequency overlap/harmonics. Doing a setup this way will without a doubt make your system not as loud as it could be, but it will make it sound more pleasant.
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btw, that was not intended to teach you everything there is to know about music Monty, you seem very educated about the topic, it was more about tuning tips for those that don't normally work with audio.
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i understand. i know alot, but far from everything. so if you have knowledge to share then by all means share. as i may learn something new and i am all for that.
with many it is all about being LOUD and impressing those a block away. and while i have been down that road in the past i am not there now. many i know know that i am into car audio. when they get into my ride they are like lets here this bad boy. and you can see the dissapointment when it is not loud. but it does sound good. i know it can sound better though.
Monty
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