Should Roger Maris still hold the record?
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99slowGSX wrote:
What about all the pitchers that used steriods? What about greenies? Do you know for a fact that any of your beloved players from the past didnt do any sort of drug for an edge? Like I said before you dont have to get huge on steriods, look at raphael palmero. It helps recovery time. So bascially if you want to banish records of now, you should banish every single stat from the past. No player is innocent anymore.....so no record, stat, game should ever stand.
Good point.But to players who have been convicted of purjery, is very suspicious, won't answer questions, and an enhanced body growth, just like Barry Bonds, shouldn't have a name next to any record without having a *
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STiSchucky wrote:
Good point.But to players who have been convicted of purjery, is very suspicious, won't answer questions, and an enhanced body growth, just like Barry Bonds, shouldn't have a name next to any record without having a *
who has been CONVICTED of perjury?
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If it can be proven that a player was using a steroid (designer or otherwise) that was against the rules AT THE TIME OF THE INFRACTION all records of said player should be stripped. Period.
You are right, we don't know if Maris and others were using them, but at the time they were not a banned substance in sports anyway. You cannot enforce rules after the fact.
For example, in the early 80's Montana still had a legal drinking age of 18 and it was quite common for 18 year olds to consume alcohol legally because of this. By your standards, we should go back and give all of them people minor in possessions because a couple of years later the laws changed to age 21 to drink legally and while they weren't breaking the laws at the time, they should have somehow known that the laws were going to change and should have waited an extra 3 years to consume alcoholic beverages. Sorry, the laws don't work that way and neither should rule enforcement in a situation such as baseball. I say remove Bonds from the league forever and remove ALL of his stats from the record books....same with anyone else found to be using a banned substance. BTW, Androstenedione was not a banned substance when McGuire set the record, so he should hold the current record in my opinion.
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99slowGSX wrote:
who has been CONVICTED of perjury?accused, whatever. bonds cant any question with a straight answer or an answer that gets the point.
its all the same responses ' im tired of this, im just tired, no more questions'
what dont you get about bonds being a cheater?
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tjamz wrote:
If it can be proven that a player was using a steroid (designer or otherwise) that was against the rules AT THE TIME OF THE INFRACTION all records of said player should be stripped. Period.You are right, we don't know if Maris and others were using them, but at the time they were not a banned substance in sports anyway. You cannot enforce rules after the fact.
For example, in the early 80's Montana still had a legal drinking age of 18 and it was quite common for 18 year olds to consume alcohol legally because of this. By your standards, we should go back and give all of them people minor in possessions because a couple of years later the laws changed to age 21 to drink legally and while they weren't breaking the laws at the time, they should have somehow known that the laws were going to change and should have waited an extra 3 years to consume alcoholic beverages. Sorry, the laws don't work that way and neither should rule enforcement in a situation such as baseball. I say remove Bonds from the league forever and remove ALL of his stats from the record books....same with anyone else found to be using a banned substance. BTW, Androstenedione was not a banned substance when McGuire set the record, so he should hold the current record in my opinion.
Well in that case, every player must go to court. Barry Bonds has NEVER tested positive for using steroids!!!!! I firmly beleive that McGuire used steroids too, not just andro. -
HandoEX wrote:
Well in that case, every player must go to court. Barry Bonds has NEVER tested positive for using steroids!!!!! I firmly beleive that McGuire used steroids too, not just andro.
yea your righthttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594
kthxbye
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tjamz wrote:
If it can be proven that a player was using a steroid (designer or otherwise) that was against the rules AT THE TIME OF THE INFRACTION all records of said player should be stripped. Period.You are right, we don't know if Maris and others were using them, but at the time they were not a banned substance in sports anyway. You cannot enforce rules after the fact.
For example, in the early 80's Montana still had a legal drinking age of 18 and it was quite common for 18 year olds to consume alcohol legally because of this. By your standards, we should go back and give all of them people minor in possessions because a couple of years later the laws changed to age 21 to drink legally and while they weren't breaking the laws at the time, they should have somehow known that the laws were going to change and should have waited an extra 3 years to consume alcoholic beverages. Sorry, the laws don't work that way and neither should rule enforcement in a situation such as baseball. I say remove Bonds from the league forever and remove ALL of his stats from the record books....same with anyone else found to be using a banned substance. BTW, Androstenedione was not a banned substance when McGuire set the record, so he should hold the current record in my opinion.
I think you are mistaken, there has always been a rule that no player shall take a drug that will enhance there performance. This goes back many years and effected all players. Bonds has NOT been convicted or tested positive for doing steriods. I am sick of the witchhunt on him, why cant everyone pick on the 1000's of baseball players that also took them. Bottime line you still need to be able to hit the baseball or pitch a strike. Steroids do not help hand eye cordination. Many players have cheated even though the rule doesnt specify specifically that the drug they are doing is illegal. So in essence stripping bonds' records is the same thing as what you were trying to make a point on earlier. You cant go back and change the past and he has NOT failed a drug test. No justification there either.
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.......and another point I want to make is that you can't just pick on ONE guy. How many role players out there used steriods and got the big hit to win a game? What if that game was the difference to make the playoffs? One simple play or hit by a player using steriods would be considered cheating. If this play saved a season or contributed to a playoff run and they won the world series. There are many good plays that win games during the season and these definatley could make a difference. All I am saying is no stat, win, or record is justified if we are going to continue to pick on ONE player.....
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so during the 1990s, bonds goes for 40 homers or more 3 times,
and from 2000-2006, he does it 5 times, and hes 35-40 years of age... Name one other player who has a statistic boom on the downside of his career the impact that bonds's did.
what dont you guys get??
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STiSchucky wrote:
so during the 1990s, bonds goes for 40 homers or more 3 times,and from 2000-2006, he does it 5 times, and hes 35-40 years of age... Name one other player who has a statistic boom on the downside of his career the impact that bonds's did.
what dont you guys get??
Brett boone, Rapheal Palmero, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Steve Finley, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Ivan Rodriguez, David Ortiz, manny rameriez,Juan Gonzalez, Frank Thomas,migueal tejada, alex rodriguez, gary sheffield, jason giambi, etc...... all of them got better with age,steriods or maybe both (you decide) Players get wiser and smarter the older they get.
what part dont you get that he was NOT THE ONLY PLAYER USING THEM........
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STiSchucky wrote:
yea your righthttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594
kthxbye
WTF is your point? I never said he didn't USE steroids, nor am I backing him in any way. He cheated plain and simple. I'm just saying that taking the record from him and implying that McGuire merely used andro is ridiculous, IMO. They are both cheaters and both knowingly took steroids. -
as for McGwire and Sosa, they both peaked at about 10 years in, which would put them at what...31 to 34? Bonds didn't peak really for about 15 years putting him in his late 30's. Also, and I'm not a baseball fan at all, they could shut down the whole league for all I care, Bonds didn't really bulk up until late in his career which also leads me to believe that there was some sort of performance enhancing drugs going on. McGwire has always been a pretty big guy, same w/ Sosa. I just don't understand how someone improves that much that late in their career. Late 20's early 30's yes, you would get better through those times I think, after that I find it harder to believe.
Again, I vote for abolishing baseball all together.
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Here is where I got my info from in case you were wondering.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/alltime/leaders?breakdown=2&year=0&type=0&sort=8
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Actually when Mcgwire and Sosa came up they were skinny. Mcgwire got big after a couple of years at oakland thanks to jose canseco. All I really care about is that they quit picking on one player and focus on everybody. In essence it was a league of steriod/greenie users playing against each other. They are starting to get it right now and that is all that matters...
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tjamz wrote:
as for McGwire and Sosa, they both peaked at about 10 years in, which would put them at what...31 to 34? Bonds didn't peak really for about 15 years putting him in his late 30's. Also, and I'm not a baseball fan at all, they could shut down the whole league for all I care, Bonds didn't really bulk up until late in his career which also leads me to believe that there was some sort of performance enhancing drugs going on. McGwire has always been a pretty big guy, same w/ Sosa. I just don't understand how someone improves that much that late in their career. Late 20's early 30's yes, you would get better through those times I think, after that I find it harder to believe.Again, I vote for abolishing baseball all together.
McGuire was 35 when he hit 70 in '98. Bonds was 37 in 2001. Not a big difference at all. Now, if you want to say that there was some crazy appearance of power by Bonds when he hit 73, take this into consideratin...Bonds had 10 seasons of 30 or more homers and four seasons of over 40 before he went for 73. When Maris hit 61, he had one season of over 30 homers and none of at least 40 under his belt. That is a huge increase in a minimal amount of time. Going from a regular Joe to the single season home run king is more telling of steroid use than a seasoned superstar with tons of homers under his belt becoming the single season leader. -
HandoEX wrote:
WTF is your point? I never said he didn't USE steroids, nor am I backing him in any way. He cheated plain and simple. I'm just saying that taking the record from him and implying that McGuire merely used andro is ridiculous, IMO. They are both cheaters and both knowingly took steroids.
You said he never tested postive, I left you a link saying he did...'unknowingly'. We all know he took roids, we all know theres baseball cheating. Nobody focuses/nor gives a shit about the others cause 95% of america hates barry bonds, wants to see him fail chasing aarons home run record(probably the toughest record to break in ALL of professional sports), I dont know the homerun total for sosa, mcgwire did for their careers but I know it wasn't legitmately close to breaking like what Bonds is.I personally don't want to see Barry get the record cause I hate him.
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Again, I am calling for an all out ban on MLB
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