Who's the best alignment shop?
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Raider;166527 wrote:
"what is the best shop" thats not what u need...most shops have new align racks and equipment including Lunde's, but if you have some dumbass that doesnt know what to do or what to change to correct the issue then what good is it to youI stand behind my techs and if your not happy on the alignment then I will realign it and take care of it
exactly. there are many "best shops" out there. you need to find yourself one. We can all suggest going to place A or B or 1 or 2, but you need to go somewhere that you know someone you can trust. This day in age, it is just plain rediculous how people dont have a personal Technician that they know/trust. When something is needed or a major repair is a must, they start to ask questions as to who to trust. That really shouldn't be an issue at that point, it is a matter of getting it fixed correctly the first time (which doesn't ALWAYS happen due to many scenarios). If you dont trust a shop because of a past experience, then you need to go somewhere else. Im not saying that I cannot align it for you. It is just in my experience that if someone has had a bad time once, they will never be happy again with that place and will go elsewhere. If you EVER have a bad time, you need to talk with a service manager to get it straightened out. Dont go in pissed off looking to kill someone. They wont take you seriously. Go in calm, explain your problem and ask, DONT DEMAND, ask to correct it if they can. 9 times out of 10 they will get it straightened out for you.
To give you guys an idea of how many alignments that I as well as the others do there, we do Gateway (Nissan/Hyundai), Advanced Auto Body, Quality Auto Body and many many MANY other shops alignments. This is either because they dont have the time to do it (too many on their own), dont have anyone who knows what they are doing, or dont have the $30,000+ in alignment equipment. Ive got 4 years of alignment experience as of now, I hate doing them but it is my job and I do it with pride. I complete each of them to specs as much as possible (depending on adjustments available or if additional work needed that the customer is willing to do). There is absolutely no money in alignments for me. So dont go thinking that us charging $50 or more for an alignment is a rip. I have other work that I actually make money off of that I (as well as the other Technicians) would much rather do. We do them to keep our customers happy and to keep coming back. If you dont come back because of a bad experience, is it because of the shops or because you didn't do anything about it?
Again, end rant/lecture.
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inspector01;166523 wrote:
i really don't trust most of the d-bags that work at these shops to drive my car.This is very true due to the high amounts of high school students that work at many shops that do oil/lube/tire work. Again, need to find someone you trust that isn't going to go burning the tires off your car and crashing it into a parked car.
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ticklemedaly;166546 wrote:
This is very true due to the high amounts of high school students that work at many shops that do oil/lube/tire work. Again, need to find someone you trust that isn't going to go burning the tires off your car and crashing it into a parked car.Well I will tell you what, you have made a good arguement, SO whens a good time I can schedule to get my fiero in? i want it done next week, as I cannot really even test drive the car with everyhting off so much. I would have to trailer the car over there, cause as it sits half the body is missing. I plan on running the car on the race track some and have some expensive tires for it and don't want them wearing funny. Should be a easy alignment, because my suspension is all brand new all aftermarket performance parts.
Mike
Boys and Their Toys Auto
From general automotive maintence to major service work. You name it and I'll see what I can do. Engine swaps, rebuilding, suspension, brake upgrades, etc...Current Toys: 1987 Fiero GT, 1989 Turbo Trans AM, 2003 Lancer, 1994 Civic Lx
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slowvo;166444 wrote:
if you take your Audi to tires plus and expect them to have the Audi steering wheel holder, your pretty stupid.
And on the BMW, if you can adjust the rear ride height, how do you align it? If you change the setting, wont the camber be effected? Do you have to realign it?!?I didn't expect them to have it, but I did ask on the off-chance that they did, or that they'd at least heard of trying to center-lock the steering rack and might be willing to try eyeballing it. No on both counts.
You should refrain from questioning the intelligence of others when you neglect to differentiate between the various homophones of "you're".
On the subject of the BMW - as I stated, setting the rear ride height affects the rear camber - the two do not change completely independantly, and the measurement of rear camber has to be done with the key on the ON position and the appropriate weights distributed to the correct seating locations. The ride height needs to be measured and corrected, and then the camber measured. The camber isn't separately adjustable on the car, but can be modified with eccentric adjusters.
When I go to a shop not capable or not interested in doing the job completely and correctly, I expect them to tell me that. I don't expect to have to explain to a professional mechanic how my suspension works.
In the case of the Audi, not understanding that the front camber is adjustable was pretty lame. The ball joint receiver on the control arm is slotted, and most 80s era Audi suspensions work this way.
I completely agree that you can't do the job properly for $50 or $70 bucks. So where should someone go when the job needs to be done properly?
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MisterCMK;166561 wrote:
Dude, you are talking about having a European car with too much extra bogus suspension shit aligned. Take it to the fucking dealership.An 88 Audi doesn't constitute "bogus suspension shit". The design is trivial. The tech was just having a bad day or something.
That said, the question remains - who does alignments on non-toy vehicles? Seeing as there is no BMW dealer in town, and many dealers outsource alignment anyway, who does it?
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Every alignment machine i have seen has a generic steering wheel holder that comes with it. Why is an "audi approved" holder really needed? on the other hand, if they didnt use any type of holder...thats shady.
For the BMW, how do they correct the ride height? GT1 or SSS? or is it a mechanical adjustment? I really dont understand why an adaptive rear suspension would need to be corrected for height. You would think a reset or correction would effect the ride?
Also, a GT1, SSS, etc. will be needed to reset that steering wheel module. Dont forget about that!Im sure ANY alignment shop is capable of doing an alignment on an 88 Audi.
The BMW on the other hand should go directly do the dealer, oh, and Bring Money With! -
Mike, just make sure he's the one that does anything with it, I wouldn't let the rest of the guys go near my car or let alone drive it. No offense but I used to work there and I see how they treat customer's cars.
Ryan, would it be possible to look at my car and see if i'd need a camber kit put in before I get it aligned? I dont wanna go through getting it aligned and find out it cant be put into specs without one and have to go put one in a bring it back, I'd like to have it done once and be over with it.
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slowvo;166601 wrote:
Every alignment machine i have seen has a generic steering wheel holder that comes with it. Why is an "audi approved" holder really needed? on the other hand, if they didnt use any type of holder...thats shady.Not a steering wheel holder, a steering rack lock tool. My steering wheel had been off and on several times so there was no reason to think that centering the wheel would center the rack. Audi sells a tool (well, its a flat metal bar with two holes drilled in it to thread in bolts, really) that locks the inboard side of one of the tie rods to a certain spot on the rack.. thus centering the rack + tierod assemblies. From here you could re-set the steering wheel and re-do the outer tie rod ends and know that the entire steering linkage was properly centered during alignment.
For the BMW, how do they correct the ride height? GT1 or SSS? or is it a mechanical adjustment? I really dont understand why an adaptive rear suspension would need to be corrected for height. You would think a reset or correction would effect the ride?
Also, a GT1, SSS, etc. will be needed to reset that steering wheel module. Dont forget about that!We're talking about a much older BMW than one that needs a GT1
The LAD is quite simple really, there is a clamp on the rear sway bar that actuates a lever which then rotates a potentiometer mounted on the underbody of the car.
The rotational sweep of the potentiometer measures the compression of the rear suspension and sends the appropriate signals to the rear SLS pump unit.Now, this "clamp" fitting around the sway bar can be rotated to effectively set the "center" position on the potentiometer to any given rear sway bar position, this in effect allowing you to control the rear ride height. If you disconnect the clamp and manually move the potentiometer you can get enough rear ride hight to change the rear half shafts without using jacks
Or you can bury the top 1" of tire up inside the fender.The factory spec calls for a 3/4" rake front to rear, assuming the factor specified loads are placed in each seating and cargo position.
I don't know what the camber gain under compression function is on the rear suspension but it is non-zero.. a 1" drop (saggy ass) in the back causes a visible amount of negative rear camber (and corresponding inside tire wear)
Im sure ANY alignment shop is capable of doing an alignment on an 88 Audi.
The BMW on the other hand should go directly do the dealer, oh, and Bring Money With!You would think. But in the case of this guy at this shop, and my 88 Audi, that wasn't the case
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bubba;166606 wrote:
Ryan, would it be possible to look at my car and see if i'd need a camber kit put in before I get it aligned? I dont wanna go through getting it aligned and find out it cant be put into specs without one and have to go put one in a bring it back, I'd like to have it done once and be over with it.Certainly! just call when you are ready to bring it in and ask if im available to take a quick look to see if any additional parts are required to align it. Demand that I do it (as you know, the salesman want you in asap) and if needed ask when I work next or if I work when you want to bring it in. Just schedule it and Ill do it. Make sure that I am the one doing it.
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wa2fastcamaro;166550 wrote:
Well I will tell you what, you have made a good arguement, SO whens a good time I can schedule to get my fiero in? i want it done next week, as I cannot really even test drive the car with everyhting off so much. I would have to trailer the car over there, cause as it sits half the body is missing. I plan on running the car on the race track some and have some expensive tires for it and don't want them wearing funny. Should be a easy alignment, because my suspension is all brand new all aftermarket performance parts.Mike
I like to hear that all parts are replaced with new. It tends to be a pain in the ass to adjust crap when it is 20 years old and rusted to hell. Figure out a few days that are available for you to bring it in and call to schedule something. Ask when I work next and demand that I do it. Since you know all the parts replaced (especially with aftermarket ones) make sure to show me all the possible adjustments so I know which ones would be best. KA's had 2 camber adjustments up front which I ended up having to correct due to the tech who worked on it first didn't know what was best or didn't know that there were 2 available. If you know I work one day, trailer it in the morning and leave it out back for me. Ill get to it asap and let you know when it is done. Stop by to show me additional adjustments (just ask when i start that day) and Ill get it done.
Ryan
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thrash, the specific alignment procedures you are describing are all to the word for OEM ones, which in this part of the country will be needed to be done at the dealership. I know we dont have a BMW dealer, but I dont know of a shop in town who aligns 20 of them a day for the past 30 years to know exactly the specific procedure to align it. We align more new cars than older ones (0-5 year old), GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota. Not very many Euros. Any older and it is mostly due to replacing parts that are worn and require alignments afterwords. And if I was the one who aligned your car, I would have commented on additional work/parts required to get a OEM alignment. We dont have BMW weights lieing around to place on the seats and trunk to get it to the specific ride height. Our alignment machine has procedures and specs for a lot of vehicles out there, but it does leave out certain ones due to OEM setups. Our shop wont buy a $800 BMW/Audi specific software with all procedures and specs due to not doing these all the time. That procedure is a good $200-350 alignment from the dealer, we would charge similar if we had all the proper tools.
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