Michael Vick
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I've already responded to this to some degree Mitch...ants (any varmint/insect/other) that is causing property damage, potentially hurting you (bees, wasps, hornets...all of which I am allergic to) or are in some way potentially spreading disease (rats, mice, mosquitoes, etc..) should be exceptions to the "don't kill/harm animals" mentality. I'll openly admit to being a hypocrite about the killing of insects for no reason vs the killing of mammals (heck, I don't even care about fish/snakes all that much...lizards/turtle on the other hand...)
To answer your question as to why it is illegal.....politicians, who were elected by the people of this country, passed legislation prohibiting the willful harming of animals as well as pitting dogs against one another, etc... To my knowledge no one has attempted (successfully) to overturn this ruling. The legislation was based on the principles and morals of the constituents of the politicians....much like EVERY law on the books is. What makes this country great is that we have the ability to appeal/overturn laws and to challenge them in a court of law.
IOW if we got rid of EVERY moral based law, there would be very few laws on the books at all and our very constitution and bill of rights/amendments would all become null and void.
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im just going to throw this out there, in some countries people eat dogs, so what makes it right to tell "us" (people in the US) what can and cant be done to animals, i am not trying to justify this i still think its wrong! but just saying i dont believe the consequence fits the crime by any means whatsoever
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killer69penguin;177934 wrote:
im just going to throw this out there, in some countries people eat dogs, so what makes it right to tell "us" (people in the US) what can and cant be done to animals, i am not trying to justify this i still think its wrong! but just saying i dont believe the consequence fits the crime by any means whatsoevertjamz;177733 wrote:
I'd have had no problems with him eating his dogs, if they were killed humanely (quick w/o torture/combat first).Basically, I have no problem with killing for food or varmint/insect/etc.. control, but for sport I find it to be cruel. Maybe I'm a hypocrite, but so be it.
That about sums it up.
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yes i know just thought i would say it one more time, animal rights people have no right to anything they do, i know there was a discussion about deer earlier, deer are no better then dogs, again morally i disagree with my own statement because i love dogs and hunt deer, but there should not be any fine line drawn about what is right for each they are all animals
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tjamz;177930 wrote:
I've already responded to this to some degree Mitch...ants (any varmint/insect/other) that is causing property damage, potentially hurting you (bees, wasps, hornets...all of which I am allergic to) or are in some way potentially spreading disease (rats, mice, mosquitoes, etc..) should be exceptions to the "don't kill/harm animals" mentality. I'll openly admit to being a hypocrite about the killing of insects for no reason vs the killing of mammals (heck, I don't even care about fish/snakes all that much...lizards/turtle on the other hand...)To answer your question as to why it is illegal.....politicians, who were elected by the people of this country, passed legislation prohibiting the willful harming of animals as well as pitting dogs against one another, etc... To my knowledge no one has attempted (successfully) to overturn this ruling. The legislation was based on the principles and morals of the constituents of the politicians....much like EVERY law on the books is. What makes this country great is that we have the ability to appeal/overturn laws and to challenge them in a court of law.
IOW if we got rid of EVERY moral based law, there would be very few laws on the books at all and our very constitution and bill of rights/amendments would all become null and void.
i wasnt so much interested in the law as the reasons people have for putting one creature's life above another.
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Heres an aftermath pic of a dog after a fight.
Yea, if you do this for the sole purpose of joy and making money to a creature, you should be locked up
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weshole;178293 wrote:
Jesus!!!!! I didn't need to see that.X2
I hope he gets the maximum and then gets murdered when he gets out.
To the people who are semi-condoning it or saying "it's not a human" I will tell you this. You kill a police dog/horse you get charged with killing a police officer. Dogs are put on the same pedestal as humans in some aspects of life and to say that he shouldn't be punished just because humans are allowed to kill some animals and not others is sick. There is a HUGE fucking difference between shooting an animal in the head/body and having it die humanely and quickly vs putting 2 dogs against each other in a pit and watching them fight to the slow, painful, and miserable death.
I too have libertarian leanings but there are some laws that need to be passed and enforced and any law banning torture of animals (then you have to start defining torture because people are fucking manipulative and sick fucks). You have to decide what is more important, your political beliefs or your moral beliefs regarding life.
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StangerBanger96;178301 wrote:
X2I hope he gets the maximum and then gets murdered when he gets out.
To the people who are semi-condoning it or saying "it's not a human" I will tell you this. You kill a police dog/horse you get charged with killing a police officer. Dogs are put on the same pedestal as humans in some aspects of life and to say that he shouldn't be punished just because humans are allowed to kill some animals and not others is sick. There is a HUGE fucking difference between shooting an animal in the head/body and having it die humanely and quickly vs putting 2 dogs against each other in a pit and watching them fight to the slow, painful, and miserable death.
I too have libertarian leanings but there are some laws that need to be passed and enforced and any law banning torture of animals (then you have to start defining torture because people are fucking manipulative and sick fucks). You have to decide what is more important, your political beliefs or your moral beliefs regarding life.
how many flies have you killed in your lifetime, sure dosent seem right to me they didnt do anything to you
and as for vick the part that pisses me off is the fact that he WAS treated differently because of his status and in a bad way not a good way, as i said i have read up on this incident greatly and there was an initial investigation of everyhting and the officers in charge thought it was done properly then out of nowhere some people from a higher service come on in and also investigate everything, even the local police initally investigating the incident were mad about this happening, and in other stories it was said that in almost any case of dog fighting none of it would be taking this extreme, there same sentace for the crime but the process of how it is being done is not fair to vick no matter what he did, our justice system is completely fucked if OJ can walk free and Vick spends 6 years in prision
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killer69penguin;178311 wrote:
how many flies have you killed in your lifetime, sure dosent seem right to me they didnt do anything to youand as for vick the part that pisses me off is the fact that he WAS treated differently because of his status and in a bad way not a good way, as i said i have read up on this incident greatly and there was an initial investigation of everyhting and the officers in charge thought it was done properly then out of nowhere some people from a higher service come on in and also investigate everything, even the local police initally investigating the incident were mad about this happening, and in other stories it was said that in almost any case of dog fighting none of it would be taking this extreme, there same sentace for the crime but the process of how it is being done is not fair to vick no matter what he did, our justice system is completely fucked if OJ can walk free and Vick spends 6 years in prision
Comparing a fly to a dog? Is that how low you guys have to go to try and keep a legit argument here?Sorry I've never heard of fly fights, nor is it being realistic. Much like your arugment.
His million dollar status is not any different then any other case. In fact it's probably hurt him more since his initial plea was 'he never checked on the place so he never knew what was going on.' Yea. Right.
How many dog fighting cases outside of this have you compared this one to? My guess would be...zero. How easy it it for someone to say that this is getting more fuel cause of his popularity and that he's being treated unfair? I dont care. I hate Vick. I think he's a classless piece of shit thug who deserves nothing that he's made being a pro athlete. I use the term pro loosely cause he actually sucks a lot. Did those other stories mention how much money are being sought into these fights? Do extreme southern, rural hoods in Mississippi have the gambling ring that Vick, his rich boys do in Virginia? I highly doubt it.
Please elaborate how it isn't fair, and how we should feel bad for this thug. Again, I don't care about the dogs. I feel bad for them, but I stated I don't mourn their losses, but NO such creature should be bred like that, live that sort of life etc. If you can't agree that dogs are a tad more humane then say a fucking fly, well you're probably just as fucked up in the head as Vick is thinking he should get away with this without a breaking a sweat
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I'm with Kirk on this one. As stated before by anyone with common sense on this thread, killing/torturing any animal for the pure joy of it is stupid. If flies, mosquitoes, mice, rats, etc... didn't spread disease/bite me/be a nuisance I would probably not be for the killing of them (I love dragon flies, for example, and never intentionally kill them...skeeter-eaters them boys are). IOW I am all for protecting/providing for your own species when it comes to killing animals. If you want to buy a dog and eat it, I have no problem with your doing so, but if you want to torture it and aggravate it to the point where it fights other dogs to survive and then kill it when it loses (or wins for that matter), I have a problem with it..
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Not to mention, it was all for monitary gain. What little it may be for. None of these fights were for free. It's all bullshit. I don't care how much of a celebrity he is. To me, that has no bearing on how I feel. He could be my neighbor or even my brother and I'd still believe his penalty should be severe.
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i will fight this one forever because it is jsut my opinion i guess
but also i say again i dont think this is right in anyway and is jsut plan wrong to do!!!!! i love dogs, but thats not the point i am trying to make
kirk you say how you hate vick because he sucks and how he acts, it may seem that way but i give him a lot of credit, i am personally also not the biggest fan of vick but to have that much media attention on one single person you are jsut waiting for them to screw up, that goes for any famous person, everyone makes mistakes but its famos peoples ones that get blown way out of proportion and i fell bad for them for that, that is basically the point i am trying to make -
killer69penguin;178324 wrote:
i will fight this one forever because it is jsut my opinion i guess
but also i say again i dont think this is right in anyway and is jsut plan wrong to do!!!!! i love dogs, but thats not the point i am trying to make
kirk you say how you hate vick because he sucks and how he acts, it may seem that way but i give him a lot of credit, i am personally also not the biggest fan of vick but to have that much media attention on one single person you are jsut waiting for them to screw up, that goes for any famous person, everyone makes mistakes but its famos peoples ones that get blown way out of proportion and i fell bad for them for that, that is basically the point i am trying to make
Media never helps. I know it. But this is happening to somebody I absolutely can not stand, but that shouldn't be the issue at hand here.How do you not see what hes doing to humane animals ie electrocuting, hanging, suffocating, drowning etc, while they still have a pulse not punishable worthy?
Just answer that one question without the bail out answer aka his rights shouldn't be fucked with because humans are are above the law instead of dogs.
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STiSchucky;178325 wrote:
How do you not see what hes doing to humane animals ie electrocuting, hanging, suffocating, drowning etc, while they still have a pulse not punishable worthy?That is the part that got me the most. Dog fighting is certainly wrong to begin with, but why torture the dog any worse after the fight? I simple bullet would be much more humane IMHO.
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tjamz;178328 wrote:
That is the part that got me the most. Dog fighting is certainly wrong to begin with, but why torture the dog any worse after the fight? I simple bullet would be much more humane IMHO.
Hell I think outside of an absolute life and death situation, anything with the killing of dogs for the sole purpose of killing them and making their lives miserable is just wrong. That includes buying them to eat them.THats just the american in me though
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as bad as i feel for saying it yes....... humans are better then dogs and most everyone will agree with that, i know im just trying to prove a point but it makes sense to me
and it is not humane what has been done to the dogs yet at the same time i think its wrong to lock some guys up for years and waste there lives for doing so, find a punishment that better fits the chrime, as for what i believe about the incident, i bet it was started bak when vick wasnt in the nfl to make some money for him, then a year later (2002) he stopped doing so because he didnt need money, but it kept going without him, thats what i think happened and the media is jsut looking for someone to blame to get a story rather then the guys that keep doing it, and as a person if most of us were in his shoes and got frustrated we would say things that made us look bad like flipping off the crowd during his game i know i sure would do something like that at least -
just to elaborate a little on what the media has affected, vick has been proved of absoutly nothing so far!!!!! yet the commisioner of the nfl wont let vick attend the falcons training camp, is that fair?
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