Ron Paul
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Bassplayer;198344 wrote:
Ron Paul sucks. I was really into him at first, but then I did some research about him. Acouple things that really pulled me away from him where that he wants to pull out of the United Nations and leave everything to all the other countries.Why is that so bad? What happens now is that the UN takes complete advantage of the US and then shits on what we want anyway. The UN is trying to assert its own laws over the laws of the US. The UN wants to ban private firearms ownership on a worldwide scale.
Another thing is he wants to get rid of government sponsored things like COLLEGE FINANCIAL AID, medicare, and social security.
Why should the government be giving you money for college? Why should the government be giving you money for health care? Why do you like social security?
Let me tell you about social security. It's so completely backwards it is insane.
First off, social security is a regressive tax -- the more you make, the less you pay into it as a percentage of your earnings. That's because there's a contribution cap somewhere around 90,000. So, all of the people that are actually going to care about social security benefits are the ones who are having to pay the most to get them.
Then there's the benefit side of things. Your SS benefits are are a function of the amount of money you made while making contributions, and how many years you live. Richer people will tend to get higher benefit amounts, and, they tend to live longer. So the richer people that don't need social security and have treated it like the joke that it is will get the most money from it!
So, SS over taxes poor people and then under-delivers on benefits to them. Who would be in favor of that?
You're really screwed by this if you're a small business owner or are otherwise self employed. Double the taxes!
Then there's the performance of the "fund". There is no social security money. You and I aren't going to see any of it. The institution is completely bankrupt. It has a negative rate of return. Any index fund or bond fund will have outperformed social security as an investment. SS doesn't even keep up with inflation (which is another government problem Ron Paul wants to fix).
Before the 30s, there was no social security. Then came the market crash and the depression. Guess what immediately preceeded the market crash and the depression?
The Federal Reserve banking system. You know, the national bank that is illegal, which is unaccountable to the congress? Economists from different side of the aisle, and even the current Fed Chairman all agree: the Fed made the great depression worse, when it was designed explicitly to prevent such a thing from happening to begin with.
THe other big leg of the fed's raison d etre was to control prices. Well, look at the CPI graph for the US:
Ron Paul is the only guy even talking about the fed, about inflation, about money supply, etc. He's ON the House banking committee. He's been doing this for over 20 years and he's been saying the same things for 20 straight years.
If you let Ron Paul phase out social security, slowly, rationally, and in a way that doesn't kill people, and in exchange for that, you stop paying income taxes (he wants to eliminate the IRS), do you think you'll come out ahead or behind? I think we'll all come out way ahead. After all, we'll all get to keep more of our money (no ss taxes, no income tax), and two very expensive, very wasteful government departments will go away (SSA and IRS).
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thrash;198382 wrote:
After all, we'll all get to keep more of our money (no ss taxes, no income tax), and two very expensive, very wasteful government departments will go away (SSA and IRS).I heard somewhere that the IRS itself costs something like $40 billion per year just to run. That's an average of $133 per person per year, including 73 million children under 18, most of whom don't even pay taxes.
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I'm not sure if you have to pay for college yourself, but it would def rape anyone if they didn't get help from the government. Ron Paul has afew good policies, but he's got some that are so extreme its crazy!
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Bassplayer;198436 wrote:
I'm not sure if you have to pay for college yourself, but it would def rape anyone if they didn't get help from the government. Ron Paul has afew good policies, but he's got some that are so extreme its crazy!Or it would cause colleges to lower their tuition rates and/or cause the private sector to step up with more scholarships.
I paid for my own schooling w/ the help of student loans from bank of ND.
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tjamz;198440 wrote:
Or it would cause colleges to lower their tuition rates and/or cause the private sector to step up with more scholarships.I paid for my own schooling w/ the help of student loans from bank of ND.
Did you ever finish school? I think the Federal Loans and grants are great and without them we would be in trouble.
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i wasnt eligible for any federal aid this year because my parents income, parents who dont help me pay for school at all. so i really dont care about money from the government, all ive done is pay them so far in my life time.
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GarageAlchemist;198444 wrote:
i wasnt eligible for any federal aid this year because my parents income, parents who dont help me pay for school at all. so i really dont care about money from the government, all ive done is pay them so far in my life time.- eleventy billion
i had the same probelm, couldnt qualify for anything cause of how much my parents made, and even when i went back now that I'm 24, I made too much money last year but am only working 15-20hrs a week and still cant get any because of how much i made last year....my expected contribution for 07-08 is like $16000. total BS how they come up with that number.
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I'm also extremely in favor of staying in war with Iraq at least for the moment. Immediate withdrawl is not the answer. We need to come up with a good exit stradegy, not just pack up and leave.
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You're forgetting that lots of what he wants wouldn't fly with Congress anyways...
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Bassplayer;198436 wrote:
I'm not sure if you have to pay for college yourself, but it would def rape anyone if they didn't get help from the government. Ron Paul has afew good policies, but he's got some that are so extreme its crazy!Boohoo get a job then and save money, that's what i've done...i havent had mommy and daddy paying my college, the majority of it's been paid in cash by me...I had like a grand in scholarships my first year and that's bout it...and those i earned...
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Bassplayer;198454 wrote:
I'm also extremely in favor of staying in war with Iraq at least for the moment. Immediate withdrawl is not the answer. We need to come up with a good exit stradegy, not just pack up and leave.What I'm trying to figure out w/ Iraq is this:
We can take a group of individuals, train them from 8-10 weeks and have them ready to fight in another country, but it takes us 5 years to train citizens of that country to defend it....and they still can't do it by themselves? Sounds to me like the Iraqis don't want to defend their country...and if they don't want to, why should we?
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bubba;198459 wrote:
Boohoo get a job then and save money, that's what i've done...i havent had mommy and daddy paying my college, the majority of it's been paid in cash by me...I had like a grand in scholarships my first year and that's bout it...and those i earned...Boo hoo back at you...I have went to college based on federal loans and that is the only reason I could have went. My parents made too much money and didnt help me out. I still worked full time and got by because of these loans. These are the loans that make our workforce better by allowing not only the rich or people who saved money to goto college.
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I have learned that getting into debates on Ron Paul tend to get ugly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and after A LOT of research, I feel he is our best solution. www.ronpaul2008.com is a great resource for anyone that is interested in learning more about him!
Jason
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One big problem with America today is the large push for EVERYONE to go to college. I personally want to go, want to earn the big bucks and learn more. At the same time, we need plenty of "uneducated" laborers willing to work for slightly less in order to advance the economy. This sudden push in the past 20 years that makes it sound like you HAVE to go to college to make it is hurting the economy I think...We still need laborers to do the actual work.
We can have 90% of the population holding an advanced degree of some sort but if none of them are willing to work for less desirable wages/work than their degree says they are worth, the country is screwed.
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StangerBanger96;198471 wrote:
One big problem with America today is the large push for EVERYONE to go to college. I personally want to go, want to earn the big bucks and learn more. At the same time, we need plenty of "uneducated" laborers willing to work for slightly less in order to advance the economy. This sudden push in the past 20 years that makes it sound like you HAVE to go to college to make it is hurting the economy I think...We still need laborers to do the actual work.We can have 90% of the population holding an advanced degree of some sort but if none of them are willing to work for less desirable wages/work than their degree says they are worth, the country is screwed.
Illegal immigrants FTW!!
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Every American should have the equal right to goto college, no matter how rich or poor, or the color of their skin. I am not saying that everyone should go. Many college students never finish or drop out and are still liable to pay back the loans they received from the government...
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SmitEvo;198474 wrote:
Every American should have the equal right to goto college, no matter how rich or poor, or the color of their skin. I am not saying that everyone should go. Many college students never finish or drop out and are still liable to pay back the loans they received from the government...Sure, and every American should have the same right to buy property in Orange County, no matter how rich or poor, or the color of their skin.
But nothing about that statement changes the fact that things cost money.
IMO too many people are going into the university system these days. Cheap loans are driving the price through the roof, campuses have little incentive to provide differentiated or good product, and the whole institution has become a "product" and not an endeavour to lay the foundation for life long learning and significant contribution to the state of the art in ones chosen specialty.
No, now people are paying 100k of real money, borrowed from people like you and me, to get a 7 year masters degree in opressed transgendered poetry appreciation. And they'll pay this money back using the awesome earning power that comes with "I can help whoever's next, please. Would you like to supersize that?"
If people just want job training, or to invest in their future earning power, that's fine, but that's not supposed to be college, and that's not something that should cost 20k or more per year for 4 (or more years). You can become an RN for less money and in less time, and actually have training that is meaningful and relevant to your profession.
When everyone has a college education, having a college education will have no value. I've got a friend who is furious that she has a masters degree (in I don't remember what) and she can't find a job paying more than $30k.
I went to a cheap state school on a full academic scholarship. I'm glad that there were scholarships available to me, but they didn't affect whether or not i was going to go somewhere, but they did help decide where I was going.
I suspect I could have gotten into some really hot place like Carnegie Mellon or Cal-Tech, but either would have been like 30k a year out of pocket. I was accepted at UIUC (#5 CS school in the country at the time) but that would have been like 18k / year out of pocket (this was back in 1996)
So instead of all that, I went to the University of Nebraska for free. It was really nice leaving college with no debt, even if people from "fancy" schools look down on me now and then.
I've got a kid now and I know I "should" be saving for him to go to college, but I dont think it's going to be a worthwhile investment in 18 more years unelss some things dramatically change.
For that matter, living in America may not be a worthwhile investment in 18 years.
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I understand your point of view but there are systems in place not to let everybody in college. ACT and SAT scores limit "everybody from going to college" and there are some people that find out that college is not for them. If you are academically accepted you should have a fair right to go to college. Its not your fault you were born in the ghetto and your have nothing. So since you are a smart guy, what if the only way you could have went to college is through loans or grants, but the government would not offer them. Would you think that is fair? This keeps the quality of our labor force higher so we dont have to hire professionals from other countries. As for you picking a cheaper college, that was your investment. If you would have choosen a higher prestiged college you perhaps could be making more money in the future. Either way you choose your oppurtunity cost and are happy with your decision.
...and back to the orange county statement. Every American has an equal right to buy property there, I just dont expect the government to pay for that. Education yes....luxury housing no. It is comparing apples to oranges.
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