So anyone voting for the yes no yes?
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torbs;221823 wrote:
Beings I'm too lazy right now to pick it apart with quotes...I used the sprinklers as AN EXAMPLE. I wasn't referring to everything else in safety when it comes to buildings. They are a part of safety codes though.Are sprinkler systems not cheaper now than what they were say 30-40 years ago (especially when comparing it to inflation)? The law states reasonable accomdations, that's all I was getting at...You took that one a wee bit too far. You blurted out a bunch of random and non-related facts in order to dumb down my arguement when they weren't even related to what I was attempting to get at. I see how your brain works...you saw one word you know a lot about and just decided to go off to make me look dumb...solid work.
Sprinklers are maybe 10% cheaper (adjusted for inflation) now than then...and are more expensive than when I first got into the business. I tore your argument apart because what you stated basically had zero to do with why the ordinances are in place. Trust me, cost has NOTHING to do with it and sprinklers have a margin (if any) affect on number of people allowed into a facility.
Also, I don't care if smog has gone down or not...it's still there. That's like saying bars used to have 100 smokers at peak and now have 50. You'd still complain would you not?
Yes and no, I acknowledge that less and less people smoke every day (some due to attrition).... But if I were in California, yes, I'd be upset about smog, but would be very happy that something had been done to reduce it and that it was working.
This quote of yours really disturbs me, "How about we make the rules fair for everyone? Either allow it EVERYWHERE including schools or ban it everywhere. That would only be fair, wouldn't it?"
-You are basically identifying something that won't ever happen again (smoking everywhere, even though that used to be the case in the past). It's comparing apples to oranges, it's just not possible or reasonable. If you are going to make a statement, at least have it be a realistic circumstance...I am getting at the point that, over time, smokers have had places normally available to them slowly taken away. Now, when there's very few places left, you want to take that away too. I'd really like to know how often you go to the bar Chuck because honestly, unless you work at one or have some illness, you have little chance of being affected by the smoke there. If somebody with asthma can't go to a certain bar because of the obvious, they have several other choices of places to go.I'm just trying to give smokers more places to smoke...make it legal everywhere. It's only fair. Oh, and I do have asthma, but do go to bars regularly, but nowhere near as often as if I didn't have asthma....I happen to enjoy The Hub, OB, Mr. G's, and Bucks (on occassion)....but seldom go there because I can't breath there. So I am left with what....Hooligans and maybe another 2 or 3 bars in town? Hooligans isn't my style of bar....don't know why, but it isn't.
You speak of other's dicisions effecting others. Hell, lets just start the prohibition of alcohol again because more people die from it through poisoning, automobiles, etc. than 2nd hand smoke BY FAR. Give me a break. Second hand smoke's damages are like peanuts to what alcohol's damages are.
But it is illegal to drink and drive....and I'm all for you smoking in your own home where it doesn't affect anyone but you....same with alcohol....drink yourself to death, I don't care...
I'm done debating you because you just can't ever lose an arguement and look at it from somebody else's perspective.
I can (and do) look at it from both perspectives... and in my opinion, the advantages of a ban by far trump the disadvantages.
I've tried looking at it from your way and just don't see it as a fair decision with respect to not just smokers, but also bar owners who depend on customer turnout, bar tenders who depend on the customer turnout/tips, people that smoke when they drink, people with friends that are smokers, and everybody else that enjoys going to bars for the atmosphere (Obviously, bars that allow smoke attract more people, and thus it creates a more social environment.)
Yes, this is true.....smoking bars draw more people on average....But I haven't seen too many bars in Moorhead go out of business due to a smoking ban....the Broken Axe (who was in financial trouble before the ban even)....and who else? O'Leary's is doing ok, as is Chumleys...
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barring a miracle comeback, the voters of Fargo & West Fargo have spoken....no smoking in bars here.
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ok. I skimmed through most of that but IN MY OPINION..... If you are a non-smoker and want to go out then go to an establishment where smoking is not allowed (like minnesota). Bottom line smokers have just as many rights as non-smokers. Whether non-smokers are willing to admit it or not. I personally smoke but I also have enough respect as where if someone asks me not to smoke around them I wont. But when I go out to the bars to have a good time I want to smoke and have a good time.
end rant/ -
iluvracing;221838 wrote:
ok. I skimmed through most of that but IN MY OPINION..... If you are a non-smoker and want to go out then go to an establishment where smoking is not allowed (like minnesota). Bottom line smokers have just as many rights as non-smokers. Whether non-smokers are willing to admit it or not. I personally smoke but I also have enough respect as where if someone asks me not to smoke around them I wont. But when I go out to the bars to have a good time I want to smoke and have a good time.
end rant/Do you have health insurance?
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What an epic battle that has occurred throughout this thread. Truly one for the ages.
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I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying it's b.s. for people to piss and moan about this. If you don't like it then go somewhere else. And yes I have health insurance and I would like to quit. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It's the right
Also.... This was once a FREE country. that is changing very quickly
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iluvracing;221842 wrote:
I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying it's b.s. for people to piss and moan about this. If you don't like it then go somewhere else. And yes I have health insurance and I would like to quit. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It's the rightWell, since health insurance is pooled money and smoking greatly increases your risk of numerous diseases and cancers, I'd say your decision to smoke affects a lot more people than just you -- namely anyone within your insurance group and immediate taxpayers.
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i agree. I'm talking about smokers rights. whether I smoke or not I think smokers should be able to go somewhere where they can smoke and have a good time like everyone else. I personally think smoking is retarded and I personally dont mind going outside. I just get irritated with people that think that EVERY PLACE should be smoke free. I don't mind going outside... THAT'S NOT MY POINT
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Well what is your point exactly then? I mean, you just said a behavior you exhibit is retarded and that you don't mind going outside to smoke. What are you complaining about?
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I'm very disappointed in the end result. As I'm 17 going on 18 (or so)...smoking gets banned in most public places...less than 4 months before i turn 21, its banned in bars...
What I truely want to know is the opinions of all bar-goers, not the opinion of the entire city. What city's opinion, IMO, is skewed in the fact that the opinions of people that are not effected at all are included...But, voting is voting and ya can't change it...Even though I expect a petition by bars if at all possible. I'd be willing to bet the majority of bar-goers and employees were not for the ban.
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the fact that its a right and you are bitching saying it's not. (that's how I am taking it)
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very correct. BUT it is legal that's the point. In that case they will eventually make illegal...??
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torbs;221847 wrote:
I'm very disappointed in the end result. As I'm 17 going on 18 (or so)...smoking gets banned in most public places...less than 4 months before i turn 21, its banned in bars...Ain't that a bitch? Something came to a public vote and it didn't come out in the favor of some people. Since we all know that society evolves, perhaps the next step (a LONG way in the future) is an all out banning of tobacco sales. I support it morally, but from a "your body is your temple" standpoint, I am against it....
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Whether smoking is a right or a privilege, it IS my RIGHT to breath clean air everywhere that I go. If you want to pollute the air around you, go do it elsewhere.
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no offence. but seriously there are PLENTY of places that do not allow smoking. why not go there???? Like I stated I personally do not mind going outside (as a smoker) But I just think there are plenty of places that allow and don't allow smoking where there shouldn't be a problem.
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iluvracing;221853 wrote:
no offence. but seriously there are PLENTY of places that do not allow smoking. why not go there????Name one that has the atmosphere of The Hub, Mr. G's, Bucks, OB, etc...
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anywhere in Moorhead! hmmmmm.???? that's a few huh? seriously dude not trying to be a dick but it's across a river, not 100 miles. right?
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iluvracing;221855 wrote:
anywhere in Moorhead! hmmmmm.???? that's a few huh? seriously dude not trying to be a dick but it's across a river, not 100 miles. right?Not a one bar in Moorhead compares to the ones I listed.
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