100+ Octane unleaded?
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Q: How much toluene should I use per tank of gas?
A: Octane ratings can be very easily calculated by simple averaging. For example, the tank of an Audi A4 1.8TQ is 15.6 gallons. Filling it with 14.6 gallons of 92 octane and 1 gallon of toluene (114 octane) will yield a fuel mix of:
(14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) / 15.6 = 93.4
The Audi A4 1.8T is a good example of a car that has very high octane needs if it has been modified to produce more turbo boost. The base compression ratio of this car is a very high 9.5:1 and when an additional 1 bar (14.7 psi) of turbo boost is applied on top of it, the resulting effective compression ratio is way beyond what 92 or 93 octane fuel can ever hope to cope with. Most modified 1.8Ts running without octane enhancement are running with severely retarded ignition timing and boost.
Q: Will toluene damage my engine or other parts of my car?
A: A 5 or 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline defined by ASTM D4814, which specify an aromatic content of between 20% and 45%. What this means is that if the 92 octane gas that you started off with had an aromatic content of say 30% and you increased it by 10% to 40% you would still be left with a mix that meets the industry definition of gasoline. So the above question would amount to: "Will gasoline damage my engine or other parts of my car?"
Even in the unlikely event that the 92 octane gas has a aromatic content of 45% the resulting mix would still be within the bounds of gasoline sold in other countries.
Q: Isn't toluene an extremely toxic substance?
A: The common perception of toluene's toxicity far exceeds reality. Fortunately there is an ample body of information available that specifically addresses this question. Toluene is more toxic than gasoline but it is certainly not agent orange or cyanide. See the Agency for Toxic Substances link below in the reference section.
US Environmental Protection Agency Chemical Summary
US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR)
National priority list of toxic substances
Note that the ATSDR also rates gasoline as a hazardous substance.Mobil's spec sheet for toluene even goes as far as saying that "Based on available toxicological information, it has been determined that this product poses no significant health risk when used and handled properly."
Q: Isn't toluene an active ingredient of TNT (trinitrotoluene) and is thus deadly?
A: In the same way that cotton wool is the base ingredient of nitrocellulose (guncotton) which in turn is the main ingredient in modern smokeless gunpowder. Using this reasoning one could conclude that cotton wool is a deadly substance. This question reflects a poor understanding of basic chemistry but unfortunately it has been asked often enough.
Q: How much does toluene cost, and where can I buy some?
A: $10/gallon in a one gallon can at a hardware store, about $6/gallon in a 5 gallon can from a chemical supply or paint store, or $3/gallon in a 55 gallon drum from a chemical supply warehouse.
A2: Experience of Charlie Smith in 2002. Sherwin Williams paint stores have it for $5.00 in a gallon can. They can order it in a 5 gallon can at $4.00 / gallon. They can order 55 gallon drums for about the same cost per gallon, but you have to have a dock unloading facility to get the drum(s) off of the delivery truck.
Q: Can I just dump in 100% toluene into the tank like the F1 racers? vroom vroom vroom
A: First of all, the F1 racers did not use 100% toluene, but 84%. The other 16% in their brew is n-heptane, which has an octane rating of zero. The reason for this strange combination is because the F1 rocket fuel was limited to the rules to being of 102 RON octane. The n-heptane is "filler" to make the fuel comply with the rules.
Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84% toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. I recommend that the concentration of toluene used to not exceed what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement.
Q: Why not simply use racing gasoline or aviation fuel?
A1: Most types of aviation fuel have very high lead content, which would rule out cars equipped with catalytic converters. Most piston engined aircraft burn leaded fuel. Also aviation fuel has a very different hydrocarbon mix to optimize volatility properties at high altitude.
A2: Racing gasoline could be a much more convenient way to run high octane fuel compared to having to constantly mix in toluene with each fill up. There are, however a few caveats:
You don't know for sure if you are really getting what is being advertised. You should find out if the fuel inspectors verify the actual octane of the racing gasoline in addition to ordinary gasoline. If you paid $3/gallon and only got 94 or 95 octane instead of 100 octane you may conclude erroneously that your car does not benefit from octane boosting.
You don't know what octane boosters are used in the racing gasoline. The worst case scenario is buying leaded racing gasoline without knowing it. Unleaded racing gasoline may still contain damaging octane boosters like MMT or methanol. A very high alcohol content will lead to fuel line erosion, accelerated fuel pump wear, very poor fuel economy and possibly lower performance, as alcohols have a less impressive MON rating than aromatics.
It takes smaller quantities of toluene to achieve the same octane boost compared to 100 octane racing gas. I have not seen unleaded racing gas for sale that exceeds the octane rating of toluene.
Since toluene is not officially sold as a fuel, gas taxes do not apply. Also racing gasoline tend to have higher markups being of interest to the performance minded enthusiast and thus is very likely to be more expensive to buy and use long term than toluene, which is typically used in more mundane applications like paint thinner.
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This post is deleted!
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yeah...still cheaper than toluene
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tjamz wrote:
yeah...still cheaper than tolueneI agree. I think that taking the risk of mixing your own race gas in an audi is just asking for trouble...expensive trouble.
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i found a while back, that xylene, toluene, and any form of alcohol would work well as an alternative for higher octane (do not read as higher chemical energy value, as we should all know by now that alcohol does not have a higher value), but they tend to corode plastic and rubber in higher concentrations. by this reasoning, one should not use more than 30% or so of any of the above unless they've made proper changes to the fuel systen
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The dealer for Sunoco 104 unleaded is Curt with Curtis Oil. He sells it to Perf Auto and to Rick at Auto Specialties. If you want it in small quantities (less than a 15 gal barrel), call Rick, else call Curt.
PM me I have their numbers
Fvckin machine took my quarter
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bah, you don't need 94 octane... silly stock motor guys....
i've heard rumor of 93, but i haven't bothered looking, 92 suits my needs at this point. besides, if nick (tufte and thompson), dave, matt, and nate can make the kind of power (or close to it) that their cars are capable of with 92, then i can be happy with it too.edit: sorry kevin ;), forgot you in the list
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I've gotta rant.
So I go to Phillips 66 (Brady's Service) to get some 100oct. They wouldn't even sell it to me! The "mechanic" was trying to feed me shit about hardened seals, and how my engine would blow in my "little 6'er". It all started off with them telling me it was 100 LEADED, when it clearly says 100oct UNLEADED on the pump. After I snapped a pic of this on my phone and walk back to his desk, he tries to change his story. Damn, what a waste of a drive to Moorhead.
When I tried to explain to him that my car is indeed performance oriented with a bi-turbo motor and numerous mods, including upgraded fueling parts from the Rs4 in Europe. I got a "OH, Europe" reply. He through in "you probably have 22lb injectors, blah". I know my injectors flow at 350cc / 4bar, but I'm not sure what that converts to in lb/hr. However, it's definately enough to run 100oct.
I said, whatever I'll just go elsewhere. He replied with "too bad you can't find this anywhere else around here." I was pissed by now, and made a few smart ass comments (probably shouldn't have), and followed by telling him I could get Sunoco 104 at a couple different shops.
Morale... Don't go to those guys, they are a-holes. :mad:
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wow. that is sad. did they even see your car? they obviously don't know anything. personally, i would've said, "i want to talk to the owner about how you're turning away a potential repeat customer worth $50 per sale."
actually... with higher octane, your car flows less fuel, so the injector comment is an example of his ignorance -
Foreigner? i doubt it. i could probably go over there and ask for 100 and theyd laugh at me and think i was stupid. I live a few blocks north of Bradys, their lot is always fulla old rusted out muscle cars. Oh well, theres more places i bet.
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that sucks man
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