National Health Care
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oh, fwiw, it looks like the current bills aren't even going to get an up/down vote.
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Monopolies are created by government -- the ultimate monopoly. Explaining that we need government to keep monopoly in check is hillarious. (Except it isn't because so many people keep repeating this)
I never met a regulation I wouldn't mind getting rid of
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So, you think that competition isn't healthy? And that a corporate bully should be able to effectively buy out/shut down everyone in their path? I don't buy it. I guess we have to agree to disagree on this point, but to make an analogy of what I mean, I'll relate it to driving laws.
I think that restrictions need to be placed on roadways. The regulations that are there are for the safety of everyone on the road. While there is no doubt that an Enzo is certainly capable of speeds far faster than the posted speed limit, and can do them safely because it has the proper safety equipment you still have the safety of those around you to be concerned about. Those who own a 1980's K-car, for example, become rolling chicanes for the faster, more nimble cars which creates a problem for both the Enzo owner and the K-car owner as both will have to make adjustments to how they drive. Whereas by creating a uniform regulation, the cars (In theory) should be able to both handle adequately at posted speed limits.
Your version of this is: Let everyone drive how they want. Eventually either the slower cars will get tired of getting out of the way of the faster cars or the faster cars will all be destroyed....taking out a wake of slower cars in their process. Eventually only cars of one speed capability will exist and the people who used to drive slower cars will be forced to catch a ride with the people in the faster cars in order to get anywhere.
But what happens when the faster cars approach speeds that even they can not sustain and crash?
When that happens....then who drives?
The slow cars are already off the road and their technology is obsolete.
The owners can not afford to resurrect the old cars and make them road worthy again, so we end up with a group of people needing to get places and no one able to take them there.
Now if there were only a speed limit that still allows for swift/safe travel for all....
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substitute the word "car" with "business" and you can get my point.
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That'd be pretty crazy to see a bunch of businesses and high rises driving on an interstate...
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im glad i have insurance from the state of mn otherwise i couldnt afford to get a headache. or a thumb lobbed off. or an exam for contacts. or my teeth cleaned. btw do you have four hundred dollars for a cavity?! right.
just because canada couldnt get it right doesnt mean it cant work. is that how we are basing the plausibility of things these days? if canada has done it or not? get serious. ive lost faith in every last one of you.
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If you dont have enough cash availible to pay for a simple doctor or dental visit you are one dumb son of a bitch. Only stupid kids that have absolutely no income or drink it all away dont have a couple hundred bucks over the course of 3-6 months to pay off a simple bill. Get a life and go be poor somewhere else if thats the case, or mooch off your parents...
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In all honesty, dental insurance is a scam to begin with...only covers exams and a TINY portion of surgical (vs major medical). I'd be better off w/o mine, and I've had 2 root canals in the past 2 years.
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24valvenotak;283049 wrote:
im glad i have insurance from the state of mn otherwise i couldnt afford to get a headache. or a thumb lobbed off. or an exam for contacts. or my teeth cleaned. btw do you have four hundred dollars for a cavity?! right.just because canada couldnt get it right doesnt mean it cant work. is that how we are basing the plausibility of things these days? if canada has done it or not? get serious. ive lost faith in every last one of you.
Who is using just Canada? Look at any other country with socialized healthcare...when they have the option, those who can afford it go where for the real operations? USA, right here....why? Because socialized healthcare doesn't work for real problems, it creates problems.
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24valvenotak;283049 wrote:
im glad i have insurance from the state of mn otherwise i couldnt afford to get a headache. or a thumb lobbed off. or an exam for contacts. or my teeth cleaned. btw do you have four hundred dollars for a cavity?! right.just because canada couldnt get it right doesnt mean it cant work. is that how we are basing the plausibility of things these days? if canada has done it or not? get serious. ive lost faith in every last one of you.
It can't work because I don't want to be Forced to spend a single cent of my money to keep you from dying, much less to help fix your teeth or anything else you're upset about.
For every time you think or say "someone else should pay for me", I think "you should die sad and alone".
If you can't pay, but you expect *somebody *to pay, that somebody is going to be me and everyone else. And we're not interested. You don't deserve it.
Regarding "finally getting it right", here's how it always goes down, everywhere:
The government promises people it will take care of them. Then it figures out that's going to take a lot of money. But the costs have been abstracted away from the end users, so everybody wants the best of everything all the time; they're not footing the bill so they have no incentive to economize. This means that all decisions about who receives what become politcal, and the decisions are made by beaurocrats reporting to politicians who only know how to do one thing: steal from the guys that wont vote for them to pay for the stuff they promised to the guys that will vote for them. It all costs too much and eventually politicians are telling which people what they can and cannot have done to them.
If I don't like my car insurance company, I can use a different one to try and get service that fits my needs better.
Now consider that trying to change insurers means trying to fire your government.
Maybe you haven't visited your grandparents enough. Mine spent a lot of time bitching about how social security and war pension money and blah blah wasn't paying enough to keep them alive with their 20 prescriptions that were all some stupid high amount of money per month. Now they're dead.
This is what happens when you think the government will solve everything: people die, bitterly.
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Trafik Jamz;283055 wrote:
dental insurance is a scam
with insurance, as always, caveat emptor. your insurance agent can be your best friend, s/he can help you save a huge sum of money by directing you the right policy, or helping you avoid wasting money on coverage you don't need.as someone who has sold dental insurance in the past, i will agree with you, but i don't feel that it is a complete waste of money. it depends on the plan. some major medical plans don't cover any dental problems (unless they are causing other issues, etc), and some dental plans cover bigger surgical procedures with higher benefits (elimination periods can vary). some plans are better if you have children. $70/month to get increased benefits and cover the kids? only if the benefit cap is an individual cap and not a policy cap
as a whole, unless you have something planned for right after the elimination period, and the annual maximum benefit is high enough to cover additional procedures that you may use in that year, dental insurance may be right for you. i think it is best to just save $50/month and keep it in a separate account if you feel the need. in the end, you're paying the insurer or the dentist, the cost is almost the same
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just for the sake of argument, Canada does have a higher life expectancy than the US as do many other countries that have gov't healthcare.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/33/38979719.pdf
Kind of an interesting read that goes along with my statement....you will notice that the US spends more public dollars on healthcare currently than most other countries on the list excluding Norway and Luxembourg and spends WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more private dollars than anyone...yet our life expectancy is shorter.
http://www.irdes.fr/EcoSante/DownLoad/OECDHealthData_FrequentlyRequestedData.xls
^^^^Nice little excel file that breaks it down far beyond what I care to dig into, but others might like to look at the info. Found the file on the following website http://www.oecd.org/home/0,3305,en_2649_201185_1_1_1_1_1,00.html
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Trafik Jamz;283088 wrote:
just for the sake of argument, Canada does have a higher life expectancy than the US as do many other countries that have gov't healthcare.LMAO.... yeah health care is the reason.....:rolleyes:.
I would have to argue contrasting life styles play a much bigger role
just look at the obesity rate for one example
31-32% for the US and 17-19% for Canada
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Maybe we should close our boarders to health care tourists and see what happens??
I can't wait to see all the innovation and discovery go bye bye..... hell just one place in TX spends more on R&R than all of Canada combined
the incentive (profit) for innovation will be gone
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Grr;283054 wrote:
If you dont have enough cash availible to pay for a simple doctor or dental visit you are one dumb son of a bitch. Only stupid kids that have absolutely no income or drink it all away dont have a couple hundred bucks over the course of 3-6 months to pay off a simple bill. Get a life and go be poor somewhere else if thats the case, or mooch off your parents...Are you fucking serious? Have you ever seen what it costs if you are being treated for cancer? My dads bills we're well into the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. My mom would be FUCKED right now if it wasn't for insurance. Regardless of how big their nest egg was. Even WITH insurance, it still cost $30-40k with copays etc etc etc. Get real Gary, it's not all about simple doctor visits or cavitys. Some people have REAL problems that cost more than a "couple hundred bucks" on a "simple bill".
This isn't about socialized healthcare, it's just pointing out how flawed your "logic" is on being able to fly without insurance.
And btw, weren't you in the service? You probably get damn near free healthcare the way it is, no?
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PSiedTSi;283097 wrote:
Are you fucking serious? Have you ever seen what it costs if you are being treated for cancer? My dads bills we're well into the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. My mom would be FUCKED right now if it wasn't for insurance. Regardless of how big their nest egg was. Even WITH insurance, it still cost $30-40k with copays etc etc etc. Get real Gary, it's not all about simple doctor visits or cavitys. Some people have REAL problems that cost more than a "couple hundred bucks" on a "simple bill".This isn't about socialized healthcare, it's just pointing out how flawed your "logic" is on being able to fly without insurance.
And btw, weren't you in the service? You probably get damn near free healthcare the way it is, no?
I am working with a company that is taking over the contract from Humana, for Tricare which is the "provider" that oversees military personal.
From what I hear, there's a reason why it was free.
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Trafik Jamz;283088 wrote:
just for the sake of argument, Canada does have a higher life expectancy than the US as do many other countries that have gov't healthcare.Japan has the worlds longest life expectancy and their health care system sucks; it's a mixed public/private system [and amongst asian nations, it is the most privatized afaik]. But it sucks, from all of the anecdotes I've read about people's experiences.
Americans should be spending the most- we want the best, and currently, we have the luxury of being able to choose to buy it. The "this is how much is spent" argument is stupid. Americans also spend the highest amount in the world on all kinds of other things. We happen to have a pretty kick ass standard of living here.
I was talking to some students in Germany a few years ago. They could not Beleive that i had a 1900 sq ft house. "What do you do with all that space?!" They could not beleive that I had 4 cars. "Why do you need all of them?"
These were affluent kids from affluent families: they were all doing language study programs in Munich.
The rest of the world thinks they've got it good because they don't actually know what they're missing. That especially applies to health care.
Interesting point: procedures that are elective and have no insurance engagement, like breast enhancement or cosmetic surgery, have gotten cheaper over time, not more expensive. When govenrment stays out of the way, the market does its job.
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oh, quick movie:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPADFNKDhGM[/ame]
Milton Friedman was a brilliant statistician and economist. He is the author of "Free to Choose", and "Capitalism and Freedom", amongst others. He helped develop the modern IRS and tax code during WW2 to fund the war effort. He has consulted with government economists all over the world and was on the economic board of directores of the Nixon, Reagan, and probably a couple of other administrations.
He's smart, and he's on message in this 10 minute video.
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Gov't controlled health care is NOT the answer to our issues.
Why are insurance rates so high (public's insurance as well as doctor's insurance)?
Simply because this:
Doctors Insurance: They have to cover their ass from the sue happy, money hungry asshat's in today's society.
Personal Insurance: Because people go in to the doctor for the most stupid shit and expect insurance to take care of it.
Easy solution...
Insurance does not cover any visits under a percentage of your income (whatever that percentage may be).
If you file a law suit against a doctor for whatever reason and LOSE the case, you are held responsible for 100% of fee's. This will cut down the people who are just after some quick easy money.
I could go on about other things that shouldn't be covered by insurance, but these two seem to be a good step in the right direction (to me at least..).
Smoking, Alcohol, Drugs : Injuries and medical issues related to these should also not be covered as you know before you start 'killing yourself' what the consequences are.
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