Track Car
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Check out this website. It's just a little list (based on warranty claims) of the top 100 cars of the past decade as far as reliability.You'll notice Honda is in the top 10, wait, #1. Where's BMW? #47. Wouldn't that kind of imply that...Hondas are...built better than...a BMW? gasp Yeah, I think it would.
Just had to throw that in there. Regardless, this argument is fucking pointless. They're two completely different segments of the automotive industry. Honda: Economic, inexpensive. BMW: Luxury, expensive. Using the logic in this forum, we could start comparing BMWs to, say, a Ferrari. Or, a Koenigsegg. But that wouldn't be fair, comparing a luxury lineup to a super car line up. Different segments in the automotive industry. It's like saying my jet ski is faster than a little tin fishing boat. No shit, completely different designs, uses, and prices. Same thing here.
What's funny is I can't keep track of what the argument is here. I can't tell if it's performance, reliability, style, class, I can't fucking tell because everybody here as flip-flopped so much. But...there should be no argument...because the cars aren't meant to be compared. But please, don't start calling one car brand a shit brand just because another is superior. Can't we all just be friends and gang up on GM? I mean really...
Edit: And for the record, if I had the money, I might just buy a BMW because...it's a luxury car, and I'd like to get pampered if I had the moneys.
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Sven;301931 wrote:
Check out this website. It's just a little list (based on warranty claims) of the top 100 cars of the past decade as far as reliability.You'll notice Honda is in the top 10, wait, #1. Where's BMW? #47. Wouldn't that kind of imply that...Hondas are...built better than...a BMW? gasp Yeah, I think it would.Just had to throw that in there. Regardless, this argument is fucking pointless. They're two completely different segments of the automotive industry. Honda: Economic, inexpensive. BMW: Luxury, expensive. Using the logic in this forum, we could start comparing BMWs to, say, a Ferrari. Or, a Koenigsegg. But that wouldn't be fair, comparing a luxury lineup to a super car line up. Different segments in the automotive industry. It's like saying my jet ski is faster than a little tin fishing boat. No shit, completely different designs, uses, and prices. Same thing here.
What's funny is I can't keep track of what the argument is here. I can't tell if it's performance, reliability, style, class, I can't fucking tell because everybody here as flip-flopped so much. But...there should be no argument...because the cars aren't meant to be compared. But please, don't start calling one car brand a shit brand just because another is superior. Can't we all just be friends and gang up on GM? I mean really...
Edit: And for the record, if I had the money, I might just buy a BMW because...it's a luxury car, and I'd like to get pampered if I had the moneys.
:icon_cheers: win! fuckin econ shit box cars
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Sven;301935 wrote:
You missed the part where I pointed out that BMWs are less reliable than a Honda. So it should be:Honda: Economic, inexpensive.
BMW: Luxury, expensive, shit box.My mistake.
... Says the Corwin rep.
:rolleyes: It's hard for a car with manual windows, no AC, and 3 electronic devices to be unreliable. I've owned honda's and bmw's so don't get me wrong.
Honda's are still fairly expensive imo... bmw shit box though? nahh
Maybe Mercedes and VW's...
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I have no problems with BMWs, they're awesome cars. I can't afford one, so I don't own one. If I could...probably would, or maybe an Audi
I honestly don't consider a BMW a shit box by any means, and I doubt Eurofan honestly does either for Hondas (he's just having a good time here, lol). The BMW is superior in just about every way, but that's because you pay for it.
Yeah man, Hondas are economical. Since when is that bad, though? shrug What's it like driving a BMW to the cities to have it serviced?
Based on the stats, the build of a BMW is inferior to a Honda. It's not a shit box, but neither is a Honda. Save that title for General Motors or Chrysler.And hey man, I'm just your Corwin rep to help you out when we fuck shit up, just like every other dealership. Just helps to have somebody on the inside! I'm sorry we sell Chryslers...
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Sven;301938 wrote:
I have no problems with BMWs, they're awesome cars. I can't afford one, so I don't own one. If I could...probably would, or maybe an AudiI honestly don't consider a BMW a shit box by any means, and I doubt Eurofan honestly does either for Hondas (he's just having a good time here, lol). The BMW is superior in just about every way, but that's because you pay for it.
Yeah man, Hondas are economical. Since when is that bad, though? shrug What's it like driving a BMW to the cities to have it serviced?
Based on the stats, the build of a BMW is inferior to a Honda. It's not a shit box, but neither is a Honda. Save that title for General Motors or Chrysler.And hey man, I'm just your Corwin rep to help you out when we fuck shit up, just like every other dealership. Just helps to have somebody on the inside! I'm sorry we sell Chryslers...
Id drive a Honda.. and keep it stock as a DD... they would be great for that (Cheap to maintain, good gas millage, ect)
Shit box's= modded to crap Honda's... It just ruins it
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Eurofan;301789 wrote:
Hahaha, you cant buy class..Hence the reason you will never have any.
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Eurofan;301948 wrote:
here you goand I suppose this isn't also semi-luxurious?
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fwiw, I don't hate BMW at all. I do think that dollar for dollar Honda makes a better car though. Yet at the same time IF I were looking for out of the box luxury, I'd probably consider BMW....but Acura and Lexus would be up there with them. If I were looking at performance only out of a sedan I'd look at Subaru/Mitsubishi in that price range.
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HaHa! Eurofan= FAIL!!
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car
Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall
Torque is how far you take the wall with you -
Corwin did some work on the power steering of my 44,000 mile Honda last week. It had the same problem as my 220,000 mile Audi.
Consumer Reliability surveys and ratings are horseshit, as they are measures of customer perception. They may matter if you are an "average consumer" and they may matter if your only knee-jerk response to every car problem is "OMG FUCKING CAR I HATE YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAH YOU ARE GOING RIGHT BACK TO THE DEALER"
Dipshits that blew all of their load on buying a brand-name car like a BMW take them back to the dealer with complaints about everything. They cannot reconcile the fact that they just spent an ass ton of money on a car that was supposed to buy them status and fame and unicorns and all that.. only to find out that it's just a machine.
The "new car" effect makes people kind of stupid. A good friend of mine who is a hard-core toyota guy and DIYer [3 different Supras] bought an IS300 brand new and complained about vague rattles coming from somewhere inside the dashboard. He had this expectation that on a brand new car that costs that much... there would be absolute perfection. It drove him nuts.
People that buy new european cars pay more for them and have high expectations. When consumer reports asks them how many "problems" they had, they say so. They don't mentino that their problems are things like "made a noise", or the HUGE chunk of E46 M3 buyers who said "the exhaust is too raspy". It's a fucking M3 you invert-dicks, the point is to drive around town with a big sign saying "I'm a cock".
I hadn't looked at non-European cars for a long time before I went van shopping. The difference in how you feel when you get into these mass-market vehicles vs. pretty much anything german... even a VW... is amazing. I was shocked that you had to get the top trim level of either the Sienna or the Odyssey to get leather.. or heated seats.
Getting into a Mercedes R class felt like "home", comparatively... not like the alien world of mass-produced vehicles with nickel-and-dime options. The only reason we didn't get one of those -- and a 2-year old R class is cost competitive with the Toyota and Honda vans... is that the MB doesn't have sliding doors.
Honda can make a worthwhile vehicle when they want to. The NSX and S2000 are certainly examples of that. It's unfortuneate that they so rarely manage to do so. The entire Honda lineup, most years, is a vast desolate landscape of fail. It's nice that people can make them fast, or put lambo doors on them, or whatever. I just can't bring myself to get interested in WWD cars with down-market option lists.
BMW has never made a car I wouldn't be happy to drive. All of the models, all of the years. I'd prefer a manual to an automatic, but whatever. These cars have the right driver ergonomics, the controls are intuitive, they stop, go, and turn very adequately for any situation. BMW doesn't, and never has, sold a car that cannot safely merge or pass. I can't say that about most vehicles, and certainly not about most brands. BMWs of 1-2 generations ago are crash-testing in about the same ballpark as current designs from non-European manufacturers.
For my needs and preferences, German cars are simply better. If your needs are different, fine.
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bubba;301946 wrote:
:icon_puke_r:do not want... I love the older bmw interiors, the was this one is laid out... How between the black and tan protrudes out, and so many different colors/materials, black, woodgrain, tan... pick 2 not 3....
So in other words you are a plain jane... how does that not look good??? youre an idiot...
2003 Mitsubishi Evolution 8
2011 Ford F150 Ecoboost
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thrash;302003 wrote:
Corwin did some work on the power steering of my 44,000 mile Honda last week. It had the same problem as my 220,000 mile Audi.Consumer Reliability surveys and ratings are horseshit, as they are measures of customer perception. They may matter if you are an "average consumer" and they may matter if your only knee-jerk response to every car problem is "OMG FUCKING CAR I HATE YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAH YOU ARE GOING RIGHT BACK TO THE DEALER"
Dipshits that blew all of their load on buying a brand-name car like a BMW take them back to the dealer with complaints about everything. They cannot reconcile the fact that they just spent an ass ton of money on a car that was supposed to buy them status and fame and unicorns and all that.. only to find out that it's just a machine.
The "new car" effect makes people kind of stupid. A good friend of mine who is a hard-core toyota guy and DIYer [3 different Supras] bought an IS300 brand new and complained about vague rattles coming from somewhere inside the dashboard. He had this expectation that on a brand new car that costs that much... there would be absolute perfection. It drove him nuts.
People that buy new european cars pay more for them and have high expectations. When consumer reports asks them how many "problems" they had, they say so. They don't mentino that their problems are things like "made a noise", or the HUGE chunk of E46 M3 buyers who said "the exhaust is too raspy". It's a fucking M3 you invert-dicks, the point is to drive around town with a big sign saying "I'm a cock".
I hadn't looked at non-European cars for a long time before I went van shopping. The difference in how you feel when you get into these mass-market vehicles vs. pretty much anything german... even a VW... is amazing. I was shocked that you had to get the top trim level of either the Sienna or the Odyssey to get leather.. or heated seats.
Getting into a Mercedes R class felt like "home", comparatively... not like the alien world of mass-produced vehicles with nickel-and-dime options. The only reason we didn't get one of those -- and a 2-year old R class is cost competitive with the Toyota and Honda vans... is that the MB doesn't have sliding doors.
Honda can make a worthwhile vehicle when they want to. The NSX and S2000 are certainly examples of that. It's unfortuneate that they so rarely manage to do so. The entire Honda lineup, most years, is a vast desolate landscape of fail. It's nice that people can make them fast, or put lambo doors on them, or whatever. I just can't bring myself to get interested in WWD cars with down-market option lists.
BMW has never made a car I wouldn't be happy to drive. All of the models, all of the years. I'd prefer a manual to an automatic, but whatever. These cars have the right driver ergonomics, the controls are intuitive, they stop, go, and turn very adequately for any situation. BMW doesn't, and never has, sold a car that cannot safely merge or pass. I can't say that about most vehicles, and certainly not about most brands. BMWs of 1-2 generations ago are crash-testing in about the same ballpark as current designs from non-European manufacturers.
For my needs and preferences, German cars are simply better. If your needs are different, fine.
In relation to consumer reports: I notice from time to time that a consumer report will list brand X at the bottom of their list for one critera. That very same year or the next year car brand X will be on the top of the list for one this or another.
Conclusion: Consumer reports are indeed a bunch of bullshit.
I think alot of it has to do with the mind set that you have when you intially buy the car (Like Thrash said). You pay so much and expect so much, but in the back of your mind you have a "bad" preminition from individuals who love to rant and rave that their 50-100k German car sucks the cock because of a few rattles or some other issues. So when something does go wrong.. it will drive you off the wall..
People who buy Hondas or Toyotas know when they buy their car that it isnt perfect, its a "Honda", they simply dont expect perfection. Simple problems that would probably drive a German car owner bat shit crazy exist on these cars with out much thought.
On the contrast, you have people who think German cars are the embodiment of perfection... and the effects are obvious when shit hits the fan...
Conclusion: German cars are indeed machines!! Although 10325042843805345034068439085% better :D, they still brake!
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