Tufte in The Forum
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Looks like 2 completely different viepoints.
First of all: racial profiling. I support it. Basically, because it makes logical sence. Statistically, it is far more likely that a suicide bomber will be...a young to middle aged Muslim male, rather than......an older catholic woman. If there were a situation where someone had a bomb and it needed to be found before it went off, I would have no problem singling out Muslims and searching them first. Most likely, I would find it on one of them. Save your sob stories, this is simply the brutal truth. If you cannot handle it, crawl back under a rock and wrap yourself in a Kerry Edwards bumper sticker telling yourself it will all be okay.
Second of all: Fargo must be different then. I have noticed that in the Twin Cities, there is not really a problem at all with loud exhaust, such a tiny portion of the population has loud cars that it is not an issue (if you go to Porky's on a Saturday night, this statement is hard to believe). Brainerd, on the other hand, has like 2 loud domestic cars, about a dozen loud trucks, and about 49628076509234 loud import cars. I guess I was thinking of Brainerd when I was trying to imagine Fargo. As far as this point goes, I am going to concede it. I have never been to Fargo, and I guess I should not be making any assumptions or judgement calls. But this does not change the point I was making.
I am all for profiling. And that is what it appears the Fargo police are doing. If the majority of loud cars out there were Camaros, well, if I were an officer, I would be looking for Camaros when issuing citations for loud exhaust. If the majority were Civics, then I would be looking for Civics. Let's say more Camaros do. If I were an officer instructed to crack down on the noise, I would pass up on the Civic I see at the stoplight about to take off, and go a couple of blocks over to where I thought I saw a Camaro, because it is more likely the Camaro's exhaust is too loud than the Civic. And vise versa.
What is profiling? Common sense. -
Stormwalker wrote:
First of all: racial profiling. I support it.Let me take a wild guess... your white.
Of course you wouldn't have a problem with it, it doesnt affect you!
If you were from middle eastern decent, you were an everyday normal citzen had nothing to do with anything, and everywhere you went people gave you shit for being a terrorist, or you were always the one being searched, or always the one getting looks from people, how the fuck would you feel?
The reason you support it is because you have no fucking idea what its like to be racially profiled. Me, Im asian. Have I been racially profiled? You bet your fucking life I have.
Tell me how you feel about it, when it happens to you, you dumb fuck.
Untill then, eat my cock. asshole.
I have to go to class I'll finish my response to fucks like you later.
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Since people do not understand the term "racial profiling" (thanks to the media), it is assumed to be the same as prejudice, which it is not.
This is not about "looking at someone a certain way", and this is not directly a racial issue, unless you are at war, like we are. There is a time and place for racial profiling, and I support the correct use of it. This is a highly charged political issue in itself, but when you say you have been racially profiled, Jim, I assume then that it was during World War II? If not, you experienced prejudice (which I am not!), not racial profiling, which is used during wartime.
Racial profiling right now directly affects people of middle eastern decent, and more pointedly, immigrants from the middle east, from countries such as Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and such. It is unfortunate that the good, honest, hardworking folks from these places that immigrated here have to put up with this. But here is a news flash for you: most of them support racial profiling.But what you are trying to get all worked up about and turn around on me is not racial profiling, you are trying to paint a picture of me being prejudiced, which I am not. K thanks, have a good day.
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stormwalker. you are one sick crackhead, who do you know supports racial profiling of their own race?????? i have been a victim of racial profiling and let me tell you no matter how you look at it or think it, it is bad and it brings out the worst in people and NO there is NO TIME AND PLACE FOR RACIAL PROFILING OK you Fucking Cracker, Honky. (Yes you are correct i am black or should i say Nigger as you would refer to me)
Jim i fill your pain
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Stormwalker wrote:
Since people do not understand the term "racial profiling" (thanks to the media), it is assumed to be the same as prejudice, which it is not.This is not about "looking at someone a certain way", and this is not directly a racial issue, unless you are at war, like we are. There is a time and place for racial profiling, and I support the correct use of it. This is a highly charged political issue in itself, but when you say you have been racially profiled, Jim, I assume then that it was during World War II? If not, you experienced prejudice (which I am not!), not racial profiling, which is used during wartime.
Racial profiling right now directly affects people of middle eastern decent, and more pointedly, immigrants from the middle east, from countries such as Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and such. It is unfortunate that the good, honest, hardworking folks from these places that immigrated here have to put up with this. But here is a news flash for you: most of them support racial profiling.But what you are trying to get all worked up about and turn around on me is not racial profiling, you are trying to paint a picture of me being prejudiced, which I am not. K thanks, have a good day.
How is looking someone of muslim decent and saying "They have a good likely hood of being terrorist, lets search them at the airport" any less prejudice than looking at a native american and saying "they must be drunks. lets pull them over and give them a sobriety test" or seeing a Mexican and saying "He must sell drugs, lets raid his house"? Just because the terrorists that struck the United States were Middle Eastern doesn't mean that all terrorists are middle eastern. I guess that by your standards, we should just round up all Muslims in this country and hold them in detention camps until this little conflict in Iraq is over.
I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that you are a republican. Sounds like the same political spin they try every time one of the social freedoms of this country is taken away. Don't get me wrong here, I wish the gov't would do more to control who does come into this country. Maybe do some background checks before they're allowed in. Maybe keep track of those who have been here beyond what their Visas allowed for.
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Ngige wrote:
Jim i fill your pain, you know us black folk dont know our english.Frances, you're talking to an Asian-American here....its ENGRISH.
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Ngige wrote:
Jim i fill your pain, you know us black folk dont know our english.thats cause your too poor to go to school and you only sit at home and do drugs...you also project your hood by shooting people....
hes black he must do that stuff...wait i think i just profiled him...sounded pretty prejudice to me....
Francis you da man haha
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PSiedTSi wrote:
thats cause your too poor to go to school and you only sit at home and do drugs...you also project your hood by shooting people....hes black he must do that stuff...wait i think i just profiled him...sounded pretty prejudice to me....
Francis you da man haha
He does have a degree in Engineering.........:)
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tjamz wrote:
How is looking someone of muslim decent and saying "They have a good likely hood of being terrorist, lets search them at the airport" any less prejudice than looking at a native american and saying "they must be drunks. lets pull them over and give them a sobriety test" or seeing a Mexican and saying "He must sell drugs, lets raid his house"? Just because the terrorists that struck the United States were Middle Eastern doesn't mean that all terrorists are middle eastern. I guess that by your standards, we should just round up all Muslims in this country and hold them in detention camps until this little conflict in Iraq is over.I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that you are a republican. Sounds like the same political spin they try every time one of the social freedoms of this country is taken away. Don't get me wrong here, I wish the gov't would do more to control who does come into this country. Maybe do some background checks before they're allowed in. Maybe keep track of those who have been here beyond what their Visas allowed for.
Last I looked, we are at war, and a very confusing one. Where the line between "civilian" and "military" has no meaning. I would like to see the country and our loved ones protected from those who wish to do us harm. Let's look at recent history:
Israel: suicide bombers terrorize the population, all bombers are Muslim
9/11: People, who happen to be Muslim, fly airplanes into buildings in New York
London: People, who happen to be Muslim, suicide bomb subways.
Now London is an example I want to go more in depth with. Because there, we see a tragic point of racial profiling. Shortly after the bombings, an innocent person was killed, because he ran from police, and because OF HIS RACE. There are many tragedies of war, and this is a prime example of one.
I don't know, I am of the mindset I want to protect myself and those around me from those who wish to do harm unto others. But what would be the best measures to take? Racial profiling is a controversial issue, and it has been so skewed by the media that it is hard to make any sort of an informative decision anymore.
Is racial profiling wrong? Is it the same as prejudice, or "racism"? First of all, I am operating under the assumption that you cannot be "racially profiled" unless you happen to be at war. If a caucasion male were to take a trip to Iraq right now, they would have a high likelihood of being hurt or killed. Because they would have been racially profiled (an American!).
I am well aware of what happened in WWII, and I am not in agreement with that at all. Some of you are taking this way too far.
At the same time, I am human, and I can be wrong. Is racial profiling wrong? I am certainly willing to change my viewpoint. I am not the type of person that takes pleasure in hurting others.
At the same time, there are Middle Eastern countries, inhabited by people who happen to be Muslim, and some of these people have declared war on us and would like to see as many Americans dead as possible, with whatever means it takes, simply because of the ideals of freedom that we hold in this country.
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Now London is an example I want to go more in depth with. Because there, we see a tragic point of racial profiling. Shortly after the bombings, an innocent person was killed, because he ran from police, and because OF HIS RACE. There are many tragedies of war, and this is a prime example of one.
^ that is a perfect example... with what you said earlier you fully condone this. I, along with a couple otheres who have spoke up already, obviously think that is a huge heapin pile o shit. any rational person should. nobody should be shot in the back on suspicion, let alone the color of his skin or his religious beliefs? wow. i think people have the right to bare arms but i may just have to rethink my policy because you scare me.
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You are an idiot.
Fine, lets take a look at recent events. If you want to talk about "terrorists" in the isreali-palestian conflict, you can say the isreali's are just as much terrorists as the palestines are, however, they do have the backing of major players in the world. Are you trying to tell me, that if somebody just decided to give your land away you wouldn't be pissed off, in the street with your shot gun too? I think not. Moreover, you can see the isreali's commit just as many atrocities as the palestinies do.
We look further to bosnia, where they "middle eastern" colored skin there?
The IRA, i'm sure they looked "like towel heads"...
Looking at the ongoing conflicts and "terrorism" in russia...
In fact, you may as well racially profile all black people becuase there are terrorists in african countries, and asians as well becase we all know north korea is going to blow the shit out of us...
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92BlackTT wrote:
^ that is a perfect example... with what you said earlier you fully condone this. I, along with a couple otheres who have spoke up already, obviously think that is a huge heapin pile o shit. any rational person should. nobody should be shot in the back on suspicion, let alone the color of his skin or his religious beliefs? wow. i think people have the right to bare arms but i may just have to rethink my policy because you scare me.Well, at least we can agree on the fact that an innocent person getting killed is a "huge heapin pile o shit". How many more examples of profiling gone wrong are there out there? Quite a number, I'd wager. At the same time, how many lives have been saved because of profiling? I asked this question on another forum, and someone made a very informative post:
68GTO wrote:
The overall profiling question, racial or some other characteristic, is an easy one to answer. It is less easy to put into action well, however.Profiling example #1: Someone steals your '03 cobra. You witness this from 100 ft away and see that this male person, (build, hair, skin as described by you) was wearing a North Carolina Baseball cap, a sleeveless t-shirt and baggy blue jeans. You report this to the police. They then begin to look anyone fitting this "description". The police have just created a "profile" and will seek to speak with anyone fitting this description because they know that someone like this has just committed a crime. Profiling.
Profiling example #2: As in this discussion thread, perpetrators of terroist crimes against the USA and throughout the world share common characteristics. They are race, religion, gender and age group. Authorities then create a "profile" on the information at hand to help "filter out" persons who meet these "criteria". Other than locating, watching and questioning people who fit this profile, there is NO HIDDEN AGENDA here. Profiling.
Profiling example #3: Murders are reported in Minneapolis with a certain ethnic group as the target and a certain ethnic group as the perpetrators. Police begin to look for these people based on the characteristics known. They may be poor. They may drive certain types of cars. They may dress a certain way or have a trademark fashion statement. All help to create a profile of that suspect/suspect group. If most of these crimes against one group are committed by another group, then to profile the suspect group is not bad. Profiles are created based on CHARACTERISTICS. Some are racial, behavioral, attitudinal, fashion-based, etc. Profiling.
You see, we do it all day - everyday! In job postings, in seeking a woman, in looking for a car. WE all have a list of criteria that helps us narrow our searches.
Profiling by itself is a neutral thing. Profiling is a useful tool. We ALL do it.
That is a convincing argument there.
I am listening to you guys too. Both sides bring up a valid point. What a grey issue, I am not sure there is a "right" or "wrong" in this case.
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Jim wrote:
You are an idiot.Fine, lets take a look at recent events. If you want to talk about "terrorists" in the isreali-palestian conflict, you can say the isreali's are just as much terrorists as the palestines are, however, they do have the backing of major players in the world. Are you trying to tell me, that if somebody just decided to give your land away you wouldn't be pissed off, in the street with your shot gun too? I think not. Moreover, you can see the isreali's commit just as many atrocities as the palestinies do.
We look further to bosnia, where they "middle eastern" colored skin there?
The IRA, i'm sure they looked "like towel heads"...
Looking at the ongoing conflicts and "terrorism" in russia...
In fact, you may as well racially profile all black people becuase there are terrorists in african countries, and asians as well becase we all know north korea is going to blow the shit out of us...
Good argument, but is the name calling necessary?
In times of conflict, across different geographical areas, race plays a major role. That is just how it is, however unfortunate it may be.
What I am searching for here, is whether more harm than good is done in racially profiling.
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