Is GOD real?
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Parker;198326 wrote:
Will someone please explain to me why everyone assumes you need to go to church to worship God?I don't. I believe believers are to "not forsake the assembly of yourselves" but gather in like minds and to worship together. You go to build one another up. You go to focus on the one thing and that is Christ. You certainly will not go to hell for not going. It has nothing to do with it. Nothing WE do will make a difference if we go to heaven or hell...it's what Christ did and all WE have to do is accept what he did...repent of our sins and then believe and follow him. Going to church, tithing, reading the bible, and just trying to live a righteous life is just response for what he did on the cross for us.
I'm sure some religions do put more importance on it that what they should. They have to pay the bills I guess. -
thrash;198322 wrote:
I don't know who God lets in and who he doesn't.It's all kind of irrelevant because what God does is intrinsically just. Why are you worried about if child molesters get in or not? Irrespective of the outcome, the Judgement will be correct.
If you're worried about it, don't molest children. Which is pretty good advice, in general...
If you're worried that God won't make the "correct" decision in the case of child molesters, by all means, don't beleive -- becuase you already don't.
Not worried at all. Just confused as to why people would support an institution where someone that uses the word "Jesus" is vain is the exact same, no better/worse, that someone who rapes a 6 year old child.
I don't think I know you, your age, your life(marriage, kids, etc.), but I guarantee you this......If someone touches a kid of mine(hypothetical, I have no kids yet) like that, while you may let God deal with them and forgive them......I will beat that motherfucker within an inch of his life, if not kill him. It is were a friend of mine's kid, I would do the same. I'm not even trying to be tough, or anything like that. What I said is what would happen. I would spend time in jail for that, and I wouldn't condemn anyone else for doing the same thing.
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2wheeler;198310 wrote:
If so, at least he wasn't pussy enough to hide in a church and pretend to do "Gods work". That, son, is weak.You know what. I gotta be honest with you man. There are some pretenders in my church. I don't know if that makes them pussies. More like hypocrites.
I know what it's like to feel disenfranchised by the church. Trust me I do. How do I know... I grew up a pk go figure...
I could have become bitter and resorted to drugs/alcohol/loose women(really wanted those for a while). But, I realized that we humans are imperfect vessels. We all have holes. We don't hold the holy spirit like we should. Grace plugs those holes.
It hard when you look up to a christian and they let you down. It really is, I mean they're supposed to be all close to God n stuff right? I dare say, I have been stabbed in the back by christians more than most people on the forum... Is that God's fault? No, it's their fault. I've decided I'm not going to hold a grudge against my heavenly father for what some of His children did to me. After all, I as a child of God have hurt others too.
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2wheeler;198335 wrote:
Not worried at all. Just confused as to why people would support an institution where someone that uses the word "Jesus" is vain is the exact same, no better/worse, that someone who rapes a 6 year old child.I don't think I know you, your age, your life(marriage, kids, etc.), but I guarantee you this......If someone touches a kid of mine(hypothetical, I have no kids yet) like that, while you may let God deal with them and forgive them......I will beat that motherfucker within an inch of his life, if not kill him. It is were a friend of mine's kid, I would do the same. I'm not even trying to be tough, or anything like that. What I said is what would happen. I would spend time in jail for that, and I wouldn't condemn anyone else for doing the same thing.
Well, like I said, I don't know exactly how it all goes down, only that whatever God decides, it is just.
In terms of how I would feel and what I'd do here on Earth? Would it meet the standard of Jesus? Probably not. Nothing I do in any spectrum of my life does...
I hear that the Marines are fond of saying.. "it's up to God to sort em out. It's up to us to arrange the meeting".
What we are commanded to do, and what we actually do are separated by a wide gap. That gap is so wide that none of us can cross it to get into heaven. Some people forget that. The pharisees forgot that most prominantly, and that is why Jesus was pwning them all the time.
The standard of the law is set very high. We're not released from the law in the sense that whether we try and follow it or not doesn't matter. Jesus "released us from the law" in the sense that if we truly ask him to, he'll help us bridge the gap.
I think if a child molester truly asks for forgivness, God is big enough to give it to him.
Alternatively, I think that if someone uses the lord's name in vain constantly, and truly in his heart beleives that God getting bent out of shape over someone using his name profanely is stupid, and God should just suck it up... or that God doesn't even matter... yeah.. that person not only won't be on equal footing with a repentant child molester... they're going to hell.
Can I explain to you how that is justice? Do I feel like that policy makes the world a better place? Not really. But it's the truth. Someday, I hope God can explain it to me face to face. Until then, I'll continue to assume that he only does what is right and just, and if I can't make heads or tails of it, that's my problem, not his.
I plan on having an eternity to figure it all out
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fallguy;198328 wrote:
I don't. I believe believers are to "not forsake the assembly of yourselves" but gather in like minds and to worship together. You go to build one another up. You go to focus on the one thing and that is Christ. You certainly will not go to hell for not going. It has nothing to do with it. Nothing WE do will make a difference if we go to heaven or hell...it's what Christ did and all WE have to do is accept what he did...repent of our sins and then believe and follow him. Going to church, tithing, reading the bible, and just trying to live a righteous life is just response for what he did on the cross for us. I'm sure some religions do put more importance on it that what they should. They have to pay the bills I guess.
thank you.. that is how i feel also.... -
We're gonna have to start a fargostreet bible study lol... The guys in mine don't understand my car obsession. I get to be the slowest car!!!
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kylush;198350 wrote:
Nope, pretty sure i got you beat there... :lol:Get a 75hp shot, When I raced asassin we were door to door!
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KA-T_240;198390 wrote:
slow car race!ya you kinda smoked me at the strip
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out there;199466 wrote:
i haven't gone back to read the entire thread, yet... but i will once i get home from work. i'm a bit worried that this topic may have gone awry (as nearly every discussion here does).or instead of awry it was just stronger public opinion to one side than the other....
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guys, i must say that i am really surprised at how this thread went... i really wasn't sure what to expect, but i thought it would get ugly (as many religious discussions do). having been around for the life of this board, i've seen so many things turn sour and get locked or deleted that i stopped reading and posting for quite a while.
i'm glad to see that many of the regulars here have matured and stopped their ad hominems in favor of a more level-headed approach to disagreements. i will grant that the most difficult position to hold (agnostic) is represented by the guys that i would expect, and so does not reflect poorly on the people that walk the razor edge of theism. it heartens me to read so many people stating different positions without name-calling... i don't know what to say. chuck, wes and jim (and i'm sure others helped through the years) seem to have done a great job leading by example.it has taken me a fair number of years wrestling internally and externally (with a catholic family) about my stance on the non/existence of an infinite entity. i will not get into the finer points, but i will say that i'm confident to declare that there is something out there, i cannot indicate with more specificity my beliefs.
one thing that has occurred to me, that seems to be overlooked by so many religious zealots and fundamentalists, is that jesus taught love, unconditional and unbound love for everyone: no ifs or buts, all-encompassing love for each other regardless of creed, position, actions, background or physique. i don't necessarily feel that one must adhere to the dogma of a religious sect (please, excuse the pejorative term, but they are all sects) to really be "close to god" or "holy." i believe that what one should do is live a virtuous life, be a good person, treat people fairly and be honest (with the world and yourself).
a man can repeat the apostles' creed, lord's prayer, hail mary and -insert preferred religious doctrine- until death while beating his wife and sodomizing his child... yet still be considered a better person than most because he goes to church every sunday and does the former list of rituals. actions speak louder than words, and the man that takes it on the chin from his boss for not cheating a senile old customer and doesn't go to church because he works two jobs to feed and clothe his family will get my support because he is doing what jesus would do. i use that because it should make you think differently about the phrase "what would jesus do?"
in the end, life isn't about using people as means to reach ends; it's about people being the ends. if you're curious, kant discusses this in one of his shorter works. i hate much of what kant says, but here... he is spot on.
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/ikfpm10.txtplease, excuse the crude language and lack of delineation where needed, but this is in the interest of the message, not meta-principles governing it
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Going to church is def not a requirement, but it is a good place to get together with people with similar interests/beliefs and hang out, and discuss the things you share in common (sorta like this forum is for car people). It also helps to have those friends from church inspire you and also hold you accountable when you screw up.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph
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