Mc Donald's on S. University
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out there wrote:
i hear you, but (not trying to restart this argument) there is a point that an individual has to draw the line and say "my cheeseburger in under a minute with a smile and a 'thank you' gets me the same $6.5/hr that ted's 1-2 minute cheeseburger with a half-smile and 'thank you' get him...
the harder i work, the more i get payed the same..."
that is one of my favorite sayings, because it is so incredibly true. the more work a person with an hourly wage does, the less they feel compensated for it. will i work my butt off for 10 hours of $7? no, i'll do enough to get by. will i work harder for $9+? you bet, because paying more shows some appreciation for the hard work that i do. this is most obvious when i make $10/hr for working quickly and diligently, while ted (who is slow and clumsy) still gets $7/hr.
why do i run everywhere and drive fast when i'm delivering pizza? why am i consistently the fastest driver in my store? because the more deliveries i can take, the more money i can make - there is a direct connection between the two, and my income usually reflects it.
sure, your management can be nice, thank you for your job well done and give you a card on your birthday, but when it comes down to it, money is what you're working for. i'd rather do enjoyable work for management that rarely acknowledges my presence but pays me very well, instead of management that thinks kindness is some kind of benefit, bonus, or paymenthell yes
And labor laws need to be abolished. I mean seriously.......i can drive a car but cant do it while clocked in. Nor can i stand on a ladder or 1 foot step stool, but can still work around 400 degree oil, 350 degree grills, and use sharp objects. Its stupid. There should be a way to have parents and the kid sign off so labor laws dont affect you. -
what you said there adam is why i got fired from bytespeed...i simply told them i wouldnt work any harder for what i was getting paid...and i guess they didnt like that too much...but face it we were overworked and underpaid...considering 4 people churned out enough computers for us to be in the top 10 distributors in the country...wait that was kinda off topic
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I'm going to chime in my .02 on this subject. I have been managing a hotel for over a year now, and couldn't agree LESS with what you are saying.
the harder i work, the more i get payed the same..."
that is one of my favorite sayings, because it is so incredibly true. the more work a person with an hourly wage does, the less they feel compensated for it. will i work my butt off for 10 hours of $7? no, i'll do enough to get by. will i work harder for $9+? you bet, because paying more shows some appreciation for the hard work that i do. this is most obvious when i make $10/hr for working quickly and diligently, while ted (who is slow and clumsy) still gets $7/hr.I STRONGLY disagree with what you are saying here. Coming from a management perspective it is much more complicated then just saying people will work harder if you pay them more, because this is not always true. Over the last years of management/supervisory experience I have had my situations that have contradicted what you are saying. Soemtimes yes, you spend the extra money to bring in someone at a higher salary (lets say 7.00), and at times you get lucky and find someone with some dedication to their job, and a solid work ethic. However, 9/10 times you will get the same results as the person who you are paying $5.50. I mean don't get me wrong I started at the bottom like everyone else. I'm now 22 years old and have worked my way up the ladder to where I am now. I know where you guys are coming from, it's hard to live off of 5.50-7.00/hr. However, you still need to prove yourselves, work hard, and show management that you deserve to get paid more. If you maintain a quality of work that is marginal at best, how do you expect to be recognized? You just expect management to pay you more, and assume that your quality of work will increase? Because most of the time these do not change porportionally.
Sure, your management can be nice, thank you for your job well done and give you a card on your birthday, but when it comes down to it, money is what you're working for. i'd rather do enjoyable work for management that rarely acknowledges my presence but pays me very well, instead of management that thinks kindness is some kind of benefit, bonus, or payment
On a survey that was published lately, they polled hundreds of American workers, and the #1 thing they were looking for in their job was not higher pay. Pay was #3. Off the top of my head, I believe the #1, and #2 thing people wanted was knowing what was expected of them, and having their work appreciated. Maybe Brian can chime in on this one?
To sum up a lot of jumping around from topic to topic, I agree with some things you are saying, but I disagree the pay is the bottom line for employee performance. There are too many people these days with no work ethic, that are just their to do what they need to do to get by, to get their paycheck, and are not willing to go the extra yard. However, the people that are, are they people that are groomed for higher positions, who are promoted, and continue to be successful. All I'm saying is that you can not walk into ANY situation, whether it be McDonalds, or a Fortune 500 company thinking they owe you anything. YOU need to prove your ability, and that you are willing to work.
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btleier wrote:
I STRONGLY disagree with what you are saying here. Coming from a management perspective it is much more complicated then just saying people will work harder if you pay them more, because this is not always true.
i've noticed that this is true... i suppose that what i said was a bit of a blanket statement. there are a few of us out there (few in relation to the masses that are opposite) who will work hard regardless of pay. i'm a perfectionist, and i come from a family of overachievers, i CAN'T do average work. i don't work harder, i work smarter, i do things in the most efficient way that i see and i use my extra time to do things that make my life work easier (dishes when i'm not delivering, keeping the items necessary for production stocked, etc).
Over the last years of management/supervisory experience I have had my situations that have contradicted what you are saying. Soemtimes yes, you spend the extra money to bring in someone at a higher salary (lets say 7.00), and at times you get lucky and find someone with some dedication to their job, and a solid work ethic. However, 9/10 times you will get the same results as the person who you are paying $5.50.
this seems to be a catch 22 that places like pizza hut, mcdonald's and burger king run into. they don't pay much because they have found that the same work comes with 8. or 7./hr. however, by offering only 7./hr, they lose out on people like myself that will not work for less than 9/hr or more because we know that we are worth it and can prove it (i have a basic business degree, so i have some knowledge and experience to back this stuff up).
On a survey that was published lately, they polled hundreds of American workers, and the #1 thing they were looking for in their job was not higher pay. Pay was #3. Off the top of my head, I believe the #1, and #2 thing people wanted was knowing what was expected of them, and having their work appreciated.
i think you'll agree that there are people out there that don't have the confidence in themselves to do a good job regardless of being recognized. like i said before, i HAVE TO do well because it's in my blood, i was raised with a strong work ethic and i have an internal locus of control ( http://www.wilderdom.com/games/descriptions/LocusOfControlExercise.html ). i will do whatever it takes to get what i want, so long as whatever it takes isn't more than the benefit that i'll see from succeeding (big, long calculations...).
There are too many people these days with no work ethic, that are just their to do what they need to do to get by, to get their paycheck, and are not willing to go the extra yard. However, the people that are, are they people that are groomed for higher positions, who are promoted, and continue to be successful. All I'm saying is that you can not walk into ANY situation, whether it be McDonalds, or a Fortune 500 company thinking they owe you anything. YOU need to prove your ability, and that you are willing to work.
ditto. i ran into something like this when i started with aflac. i went in planning to spend my extra time selling aflac benefits... but they expected me to come in and devote most of my time to it. i could have done well with aflac, but it wasn't something that i wanted to do with my time, i wasn't ready to jump headfirst into the position. essentially... for me, i have found that the only times i don't succeed in a position are when there are conflicting ideas about what my duties are.
i partially agree with that survey. enjoying what i do is always the top of my list, pay is second, because i don't care about being appreciated (see previous comment about the correlation between pay and value) and i'm not afraid to ask what i'm doing wrong if my supervisors are displeased with my performanceEDIT: wow, i just realized that i could probably use these ideas to write a great essay for one of my upcoming philosophy classes... hmm... better start making some notes
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I think this may be the only exception for "the harder you work the more you get paid."
Where I work the production #'s directly affect my paycheck. If you slack you will only get your base rate but if you work your ass off it is usually somewhere around 150% increase from your base rate.
BUT anywhere I worked it didn't affect my rate of pay of how hard I worked.
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well said out there.... what do you do currently? what is your employment background? what are your career goals.... pm me or add me to your messenger [email protected].
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I also agree and disagree. Generally it depends on what level of a job we are talking about. I dont care how much your getting paid to work at Mc Donalds most people will not care about there job. Essentially the job sucks, you dont like saying you work there, the work you do is not gratifying. YES, you may be good at your job. But when you get good at a job some people think they deserve a raise right away. You stink like grease, burn your hands, and are under constant pressure. I am not going to lie, I worked at Mc Donalds when I was 15 for a couple of months. I thought I was good and deserved more. When I didnt get it, I did not care about working there anymore, why work harder than everyone else for the same amount of money. But, if I would have gotten a raise, I would of worked hard for a while and felt like I was worth money again. The process would have continued until I quit there. All in all entry level jobs can be filled by almost anyone and managements point of view is why pay more when your a replaceable. I go through this in my housekeeping department all of the time. It is crappy work, have to work weekends, and the pay is crappy. But everytime I put an ad in I hire 4 or 5 more. I know in the the first quarter I went through 20 housekeepers all replaced in no time. Did the quality of our rooms go down? NO. Then again who do you reward? Too much pressure is put upon managers to carry the slack of underpaid and underachieving employees. Upper management puts faith in the manager to get them through the tough times and make things work. Yes, you do have some lead people in those positions and you do your best to keep them happy and give them what you can.
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out there wrote:
if there is some differential for pay that is based on your production (ie commission) then it is totally worth giving 100%, but with so many high school jobs, there is no real incentive to overwork oneselfThat is exactly my problem. I have been told countless times that i should be promoted to a manager at mcdonalds because i go the extra mile as you do, i like to be planned for the known rushes (11-2 & 430-730) and try get everything as ready as possible. But as was stated, fast food is VERY reluctant to give raises as they know someone else could take my place and do a job that will get them through, and do it for 7.20 (what i get) or less.
I wish i had more options to work places though. Id LOVE to work outdoors like landscaping/staining decks/whatever but usually my age causes people to not hire me and lack of experience as well. Thats why i wish there was a way around the labor laws because if i was put in a job i actually enjoyed going to and had fun doing, 40+ a week would seem like a breeze. Right now ive put 84 hours of work in the past 2 weeks and it has seemed closer to 168 because the job is such a pain in the ass, as well as a drag on moral. I hate telling someone that i work at mcdonalds because people assume that if you work fast food youre just stupid or dumb, and i am by no means dumb (unless it comes to cars). They cant see past the fact that labor laws really limit people of my ages capabilities. Oh well, i guess sometimes you just have to stick with whats available and once i turn 18 the possibilities will expand exponentially.
EDIT: didnt read brians post, that is almost exactly it. Except i guess i got lucky or unlucky, depending on how you put it. I was thinking about quitting and then they gave me a 60 cent raise which is the biggest they will give besides turning 16, so i was like hey sweet, and decided to stay. After awhile i got better and felt like going somewhere else where id be getting better than 5.85, then i got my $1 raise for turning 16 and was like holy shit money money. Same process happened 2 more times and now im at 7.20 and feeling like id rather work somewhere more gratifying as well as fun for less money.
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I completely disagree with some of the arguements here. And in fact, some of these reasons are EXACTLY why I won't go back to that McD's to eat again. Yes it comes down to the age issue, period the end. Someone else said, which I believe too, is that today's younger highschool kids have WAY too much handed to them on a golden platter. There's so many more spoiled kids these days then there was 10 years ago. I started working in the food industry when I was 15 and did it for almost 5 years, so I know exactly how it all works. You don't get a raise and THEN work harder, you work hard for your raise. Do you think that your workplace owes you a raise for doing just average work? Fuck no. You have to prove to them that you're worth it, and if you can't do that, they'll leave your pay the same, because you're nothing special, and can be easily replaced by someone who will do the same for the same pay. Then hopefully that new person will have some really good work ethics and try to be the guy that goes up the ladder by working hard. Now if your workplace is telling you that you'll get promoted and you'll get raises, then they have to stand behind that. And if they don't, then first, take a look at yourself and just make sure you are doing exactly what you're supposed to, and if you are, let them know you'll go somewhere else for better pay. The threat to quit is usually a really good way to get a raise, if that's what you're looking for. And honestly, if you're worth the raise, they'll give it to you, if not, they'll say "Alright well good luck on your new job, bye." So if you aren't getting paid what you think you're worth, look into the details. Maybe actually try going the extra mile and make sure the manager sees that you are doing it, go tell them about all the extra shit you did, then maybe you'll get promotions, and go on up the ladder.
If I was the manager at that McD's, I would have sent at least 3 of those punks home that were fucking off. I managed the kitchen at a restaurant for a while, and some of the people working under me were only a year younger, some all the way to 4-5 years younger, and I was in charge of them. When there isn't shit to do, they were cleaning. And if they didn't like it, that was just too bad. I did all the bullshit work on my way up the ladder, and that's what I had them do when I was in charge. And honestly, at the place I worked at, there was NO goofing off, slacking, or screwing around anywhere in the restaurant where we could be seen. Of course we got in trouble for dumb shit, but it was always in the back area by the kitchen and back door. So that's a bullshit arguement that "oh it happens, everyone does it". That goes right back to the immature lazy fucks that give everyone a bad name.
I had another experience today, this time it was at Burger King on University. It wasn't that big of a deal, but just annoying as hell. There was only like 3-4 people working, one girl, taking orders and working the till, she was rude, barely said 2 words to us through the order, pretty much threw the food on my tray and pushed me off, and she was really fat and ugly. The other girl was standing up there by the till just talking away, w/ 2 of her friends that were in line behind me, while my food was sitting there waiting to be put on my tray so I could go eat. That was about 3-4 min of food sitting there. And then there was one or 2 guys in the back making food and doing what they're supposed to, and they actually whipped it up pretty quick. So the BK on S university isn't up there anymore either.
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darkelvis wrote:
Troy-remember, those people you are bitching about are like 90% of this board, doesn't seeing them in person make you wonder why there are more immature fuckwads screwing up the local scene?Dear fastfood workers that bitch about how hard the job is:
Your job isn't hard. It isn't even a real job. If you think this job sucks wait until you get a real one. I get so fucking sick of people talking about how hard it is. Let me tell you something, I am a trained chef, I work at Red Lobster. I've been in the food industry for 7 years, I WOULD GLADLY TAKE YOUR JOB ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Quit the bitching./rant (sorry, woke up on the wrong side of the bed)
EDIT FOR CLARITY: I have no problem with fast food workers. I have a major problem with fast food workers who bitch constantly about how hard their job is!
Want to switch jobs with me? Your bitching about cooking lobsters and shit. Im a god damned commercial plumber, and if you think its nothing but putting in some pipes your wrong. I work just as hard if not harder then most construction workers out there, and get covered in SHIT sometimes. Try digging a trench in clay 6ft deep 5ft wide and 35ft long by hand because you cant get a backhoe inside the building your working in. Ever swung a pick axe or used a shovel so long you cant hold your arm out in front of you at the end of the day? Doubtfull. If the money wasnt so awsome id quit.
So quit being a hypocrit because your job isnt that hard either.
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Flowcus wrote:
Want to switch jobs with me? Your bitching about cooking lobsters and shit. Im a god damned commercial plumber, and if you think its nothing but putting in some pipes your wrong. I work just as hard if not harder then most construction workers out there, and get covered in SHIT sometimes. Try digging a trench in clay 6ft deep 5ft wide and 35ft long by hand because you cant get a backhoe inside the building your working in. Ever swung a pick axe or used a shovel so long you cant hold your arm out in front of you at the end of the day? Doubtfull. If the money wasnt so awsome id quit.So quit being a hypocrit because your job isnt that hard either.
you're not comparing apples to apples here... we are talking about the customer service, and restaraunt management field.
I agree with troy that there are areas for improvement at every fast food restaraunt. But think about it, how many times have you ever received superior customer service at a fast food restaraunt. I can't think of any times that impressed me enough to stick out in my mind. Bottom line is it's an entry level position, with usually younger employees. People put up with a lower level of customer service because they want to go somewhere quick, and less expensive, and for that you will see areas where other things are cut. One thing is labor, and extensive customer service training.
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I agree that we should be taught customer service, at least managers. Actually there is NO training (at least for mcdonalds) in the customer service area for managers even, nothing more basic than the average joe schmoe already knows. That alone would help i think. I also think being able to talk back to customers would be a good thing too. The way things go now you just have to take all the abuse you get and suck it up, which sucks. The old days you always hear about sound much better, where someone who deserved something got it, and the giver didnt have to worry about being sued for every little thing. Its a complicated situation and both sides have valid arguments when it comes down to it.
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