Looking for a pontiac 455
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tqisking wrote:
I really wish people would quit calling the pontiac engine a Big Block...it is not all pontiac engines 326-455 are all physically the same size, period....Yup, like I said.
MisterCMK wrote:
BTW, there is no "big block" or "small block" with the pontiac motors. They are all the same physical size. -
Big block or not there is no way a stock quadracrap could feed 500 horses it would at least have to be rebuilt for more cfm, and the stock manifolds might get you the numbers but numbers aren't good for anything but bragging. You want that motor to continue building power as the RPM's go up, with stock manifolds it will fall on its face at about 4000-5000 RPM ported or not. Maybe there are some good factory cast iron headers like you get on 89-up 5.0 stangs those might work.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
capitlj wrote:
Big block or not there is no way a stock quadracrap could feed 500 horses it would at least have to be rebuilt for more cfm, and the stock manifolds might get you the numbers but numbers aren't good for anything but bragging. You want that motor to continue building power as the RPM's go up, with stock manifolds it will fall on its face at about 4000-5000 RPM ported or not. Maybe there are some good factory cast iron headers like you get on 89-up 5.0 stangs those might work.I'm thinking Chad (tqisking) knows a bit about this subject, you might wanna leave the technical aspect of things to him.
Having said that, I still vote for a 2JZ swap.
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Here is a 600hp pump gas Poncho if you are interested
http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492069
Chad
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I'm giving up ha not really 5k is not spinning the motor high unless you have a stick or and auto with a shift kit like i dont your tranny will run the motor up to at least 5k before shifting with the pedal to the floor, My 5.0 literally falls on its face after 4k and then i have to wait another thousand RPM before it shifts its frustrating as hell, and that motor for sale is definatly worked over a lot more than what you guys are talking about. I can see aluminum heads, at least $1600, headers on the floor, high rise intake manifold, really shiny fuel pump, and all that makes 600hp. No way you could get over 500 with the stock manifolds, carb, and heads even if they are worked you just wont get the flow through those manifolds. Come on guys i might be wrong but its not for the reasons your giving.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
I'm done arguing with you. Go read here. http://boyleworks.com/ta400/index.html
All that I am saying is that the RA IV manifolds are supposed to flow as well as a pair of headers. The later quadrajets are up to the task of handling the power. The earlier model q-jets were 750cfm, the later ones are 800. As far as heads go, some of the pontiac heads are great with just a port/polish. The stock parts on pontiac motors have a lot of potential in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.
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MisterCMK wrote:
I'm done arguing with you. Go read here. http://boyleworks.com/ta400/index.htmlAll that I am saying is that the RA IV manifolds are supposed to flow as well as a pair of headers. The later quadrajets are up to the task of handling the power. The earlier model q-jets were 750cfm, the later ones are 800. As far as heads go, some of the pontiac heads are great with just a port/polish. The stock parts on pontiac motors have a lot of potential in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.
You are correct!!!!
The only thing about the RA manifolds is that they are about as good as a set of 3 tube headers (2 center ports are one tube)... So he would be better off getting a cheap set of 4 tube headers, and probably a performer rpm intake. The Q-jet will work fine for 500hp, but will most likely need calibration. It seems though that the person who originally asked this question is not here anymore???
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capitlj wrote:
I'm giving up ha not really 5k is not spinning the motor high unless you have a stick or and auto with a shift kit like i dont your tranny will run the motor up to at least 5k before shifting with the pedal to the floor, My 5.0 literally falls on its face after 4k and then i have to wait another thousand RPM before it shifts its frustrating as hell, and that motor for sale is definatly worked over a lot more than what you guys are talking about. I can see aluminum heads, at least $1600, headers on the floor, high rise intake manifold, really shiny fuel pump, and all that makes 600hp. No way you could get over 500 with the stock manifolds, carb, and heads even if they are worked you just wont get the flow through those manifolds. Come on guys i might be wrong but its not for the reasons your giving.Have you ever seen the size of your exhaust ports on your 5.0?
Anyway if you have a pontiac transmission it will more than likely be calibrated to shift at the correct rpm (low probably 5200rpm dont remember) And you were wrong about the heads they are closer to $2500, and that high rise intake is a victor about the only decent intake that you could buy for a "big" engine untill recently, also that is not a fuel pump it is a regulator...
I am pretty sure nowhere did he say that he wanted to run factory manifolds, did he?
What would it take for 480-500hp
455 cubic inches
a camshaft in the 246 @ .050 and 253 @ .050 around .500-.550 lift
A good factory intake would be ok but as I said earlier the RPM would be a better choice
A set of good factory heads with a good clean up and valve job(what casting number would depend desired compression ratio)
Cheap 4 tube headersThat is about it you would make 480-500 hp around 5500 rpm maybe a little less..
You do not have to spin the chit out of a engine to make power or be fast you just have to get the combo right
Chad
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tqisking wrote:
You are correct!!!!The only thing about the RA manifolds is that they are about as good as a set of 3 tube headers (2 center ports are one tube)... So he would be better off getting a cheap set of 4 tube headers, and probably a performer rpm intake. The Q-jet will work fine for 500hp, but will most likely need calibration. It seems though that the person who originally asked this question is not here anymore???
I've heard there are fitment problems with the shaker scoop and a performer rpm intake.
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Thank you tqisking for finally putting him in his place. Hopefully he will believe someone else who knows about pontiac motors.
On another note, we will be building a 400 to put in our 75 Trans Am this winter. I'll have to make a thread documenting the build.
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capitlj wrote:
A big block cheaper than a small block!!!!:icon_scratch:
No freaking way not if you're trying to get 400-500 ponies.
The 455 is a pretty potent motor but to get that kind of power you will need some aftermarket heads, intake, headers, cam, and a pretty good carb setup and big block parts are never cheap. I know on the BB ford heads you can machine them out and put bigger valves in to get the flow you need to feed that kind of power but i dont know on the 455. Edelbrock performer RPM's will run you over $800 a piece. I know for a fact that you can get the whole top end kit from edelbrock for a 350 for like $1500 and thats good to about 450 with cam and headers. If you build a stroker like a 383 you can easily push it over 500 hp, but it aint gonna be cheap to get that much out of a small block, or any engine for that matter you have to build it to handle the abuse. You gotta remeber none of these engines were ever meant to push that much power if you cross the line you can get bit in the ass pretty easily. My advise is talk to some guys who have built a couple of 455's the net is a great place for that and do your homework.WE ARE SAYING THE SAME THING, I said those heads were <u>at least</u> $1600. With all those go fast goodies on that motor it makes 600HP so your guys are saying that those heads, manifolds, and carb are only worth 100hp over the stock ones:eek:. If he spent that kind of cash for 100 ponies, it just doesnt add up to me. You guys are right tho i'm not intimatly familiar with pontiacs (GM ewwwwww) but it don't take that much knowledge to connect the dots. While there are a couple of them on that link that are making 500 with the stock exhaust and heads they have new, or reworked, carbs and intakes as well as completly built valvetrains, and new cams. THATS all i'm saying.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
No those heads,manifolds, and carb are worth 210~hp more than the stock stuff....And once again I am sure that he never once said he wanted to run a completely stock 455 and hope to get 500hp....
As far as the only 600hp deal, put some compression it it and a more aggressive camshaft profile and you will be at 720-750hp with the same head flow and intake and everything....Ask me how I know;)
Chad
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Nobody said bone stock but we were talking about using the stock parts. That still doesnt explain the fact that that link u guys sent me too further proved my point that to get that kind of power out of that 455 u have to spend a <u>lot</u> of money, much more than say dropping a 350 in with the same kind of power. That was my point from square one, although the 455 would be much cooler.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
tqisking wrote:
What would it take for 480-500hp455 cubic inches
a camshaft in the 246 @ .050 and 253 @ .050 around .500-.550 lift
A good factory intake would be ok but as I said earlier the RPM would be a better choice
A set of good factory heads with a good clean up and valve job(what casting number would depend desired compression ratio)
Cheap 4 tube headersThat is about it you would make 480-500 hp around 5500 rpm maybe a little less..
You do not have to spin the chit out of a engine to make power or be fast you just have to get the combo right
Chad
$2500-$3000
That is all, you will notice that nowhere in here did I say aluminum heads....You will have atleast that kind of money into a sbc and will make nowhere near the tq, so the car will have worse street manners and be slower at the track...Of course if we want it to fall off at 4000rpm he could always put a ford in it
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LOL @ Chad
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Ha Ha Ha thats blasphemous a ford motor in a pontiac, lets not go there. I agree with what was said earlier about working over that motor but somewhere along the line someone mentioned that an almost stock 455 could push 500hp and i threw my bullshit flag, bc the earlier conversation had some semblance of a budget restriction. We were argueing the same point albeit from different angles.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
one last post with mostly stock stuff even a q-jet
DYNO TESTING
The heads were tested on a 455 (now 468) engine mounted on a Super Flow SF-901 dynamometer. Jeff usually does not acknowledge the torque figure at the start of the pull because it could be incorrect. So the reading was taken at 3,900 to get a more realistic number on the 6X head pull. The correction factor for testing was 1.083.BEST PULL: 6X HEADS WITH Q-JET
RPM....TQ....HP
3,500 524.5 349.5
3,600 514.4 352.6
3,700 518.4 365.2
3,800 521.3 377.1
3,900 522.0 387.6
4,000 521.2 397.0
4,100 517.2 404.0
4,200 502.2 401.6
4,300 495.9 406.0
4,400 504.7 422.8
4,500 509.0 436.1
4,600 506.0 443.2
4,700 497.6 445.3
4,800 494.3 451.7
4,900 486.4 453.8
5,000 471.4 448.8
5,100 457.7 444.4
5,200 455.8 451.3
5,300 451.2 455.4
5,400 439.2 451.5
5,500 427.1 447.2
BEST PULL: KAUFFMAN ALUMINUM HEADS WITH Q-JET
RPM ....TQ....HP
3,500 547.2 364.6
3,600 549.5 376.7
3,700 548.1 386.2
3,800 548.4 396.8
3,900 548.6 407.4
4,000 548.3 417.6
4,100 546.3 426.4
4,200 545.9 436.6
4,300 543.4 444.9
4,400 539.4 451.9
4,500 537.4 460.4
4,600 534.9 468.5
4,700 532.5 476.5
4,800 523.5 478.5
4,900 518.9 484.1
5,000 511.4 486.9
5,100 501.6 487.1
5,200 492.7 487.8
5,300 485.4 489.8
5,400 478.1 491.6
5,500 471.9 494.2
5,600 463.6 494.3ABOUT THE DYNO ENGINE
Block: .060-over 455 = 468 ci
Crank: Stock nodular iron, 4.21 stroke, rotating assembly balanced
Rods: Crower forged steel, stock 6.625 length
Oiling System: Stock
Pistons: TRW forged, flat-top, exactly-zero deck
Compression Ratio: 9.95:1
Heads: 6X, 2.11/1.77 valves
Mods: Port-matched, cleaned up, bowl work, bigger exhaust valves
Valve Job: Custom, multi angles
Chamber Size: 91 ccs
Head Gasket: Fel-Pro 8518
Rocker Arms: Crane, 1.65:1 roller, Rhoads lifters
Cam: Crower PN 60919, hydraulic
Duration at .050: 231º/240º
Lift: .517/.517 with 1.65:1 rockers
Lobe Separation Angle: 113º
Installed Position: Intake set at 109º centerline
Intake Manifold: OEM '68 cast iron
Mods: Reworked at carb flange to fit both bolt patterns, Q-jet and Holley
Carb: Q-jet, .073 primary jets, .048 custom-machined secondary rods
Carb: Holley, custom .093 primary jets, custom .097 secondary jets
Distributor: GM HEI, 20º mechanical advance
Timing: 30º total, all in by 2,500 rpm
Spark Plugs: AC R45TSX
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