Is GOD real?

[2wheeler]

fallguy;199868 wrote:
The only one guy to be successful living a perfect life was Christ. That is who should be your example of how to live....not your sinful friends who do there best to be like Christ and fail miserably.

Wonder why it so hard for my friends to be like Christ. If they fail so miserably, they must not be trying very hard. I will refer back to my friend at work......he makes it look so easy to be a Bible-following Christian. To me, he is a believable Christian.

fallguy;199868 wrote:
because of what Christ did on the cross for me I know that my sin debt is paid. For the sins I've done in the past and will continue to sin in the future.

See, to a person such as myself, this is way too much of a cop-out. How about just not sinning?

[weshole]

2wheeler;199874 wrote:
See, to a person such as myself, this is way too much of a cop-out. How about just not living?

There fixed that for you.

Just tryin to lighten what seems to be an ever darkening mood this thread looks to be heading towards.

Matt, Dave, and Ethan.... All of you seem to be trying to justify each others beliefs to each other. That's pointless. All of you have had the beliefs that you have for a long time and I'll lay money that none of you will change your beliefs based on what anyone is going to type in this thread. It looks like your arguing just for arguments sake. (Just an observation) I may not share all of your beliefs but I still look up to all of you fellas in one way or another as I'm sure many other people on here do. What I'm trying to say is..... I get your point.

[2wheeler]

DaveH;199871 wrote:
So you are telling me that you were seriously asking if there are recent revisions to the bible.... this was a serious question? No really, this was a real question? If that is actually the case (which it isn't), then the answer is No. There have never been (and I doubt there ever will be) revisions to the bible. It's been untouched for a couple thousand years and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Now Dave, I would have expected this from someone else, but not you. I DID NOT ask if there were any recent revisions to the bible(what you wrote). I asked, are there any revisions to the bible, and, if so, WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST RECENT(what I wrote)?

You make it sound like I'm asking for the 1990 version of the bible. I'm not. For all I know, there is a revision of the bible that was created 1500 years ago. Like I said, I run into plenty of people that will bring up stuff like this, trying to make the question asker(me) look silly, as opposed to just answering the question. It's this kind of stuff that pushes me farther and farther away from religion. I'm sure you guys could care less if someone like me believed, like you guys do. For me, there are just too many inconsistencies among Christians.

[2wheeler]

Aw Wes, ya big softie. lulz

Dave, Matt and I have a full respect for the others point of view. No dark mood here.

Believe it or not, my work buddy, Doug, has had me looking at the other side very deeply sometimes. I can guarantee though, it is because of his immense knowledge of his religion. He never needs to question what the bible says, because he lives it. He knows exactly what it says. He walks the walk.

[fallguy]

2wheeler;199878 wrote:
Aw Wes, ya big softie. lulz

Dave, Matt and I have a full respect for the others point of view. No dark mood here.

Believe it or not, my work buddy, Doug, has had me looking at the other side very deeply sometimes. I can guarantee though, it is because of his immense knowledge of his religion. He never needs to question what the bible says, because he lives it. He knows exactly what it says. He walks the walk.

Just wondering what your referencing your facts of your friends expertise in Christianity. I take it your not the expert but you happen to think your co-worker is? This is the type of thing that gets guys like you farther from the truth. If your co-worker stumbles, ( and I pray to God he doesn't) but since he's a sinner by nature like all of us and has the saving knowledge of Christ to forgive him, he probably will stumble. You'll only be more disappointed in Christianity since you put him on a pedestal and think that he doesn't sin for some reason. There are many great Christian men that have fallen and have given "Christianity" a bad name. Just be careful. Like I said. Christ is our example not some fallable human sinner saved by Grace. I'm glad though that you have a "true" Christian example close to you.

[DaveH]

2wheeler;199876 wrote:
I'm sure you guys could care less if someone like me believed, like you guys do. You are sadly mistaken. I wouldn't even bother responding to these silly threads if I didn't care.

[2wheeler]

DaveH;199888 wrote:
You are sadly mistaken. I wouldn't even bother responding to these silly threads if I didn't care.

+1.

[Guest]

DaveH;199834 wrote:
Sorry Chuck, I can't let that slide...

Civil Rights: "The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S."

The 13th and 14th refer to slavery and citizenship: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I don't see any civil rights that homosexuals are missing out on?

That was part of the copy/paste part......

I would argue that civil unions (I am a believer that marriage is a term reserved solely for man and wife) are not allowed (for the most part) in this country. I'm not pro-gay or anti-gay, I think that if they are citizens that obey the law, they should be allowed as many rights under the law as the next couple....whether that be adoption, benefits, civil unions, tax incentives, survivorship rights, etc... Do I think that the way of the homosexual is correct? No! But I also don't feel that Muslims/Jehovah Witnesses/Buddhists/Hindu/etc... are right, but I don't see anyone saying that they can't have any of the rights I've listed above. But this isn't about politics (well....not supposed to be)

The question should really be, how many of you think homosexuals will be condemned (due to this part of the bible) yet still eat shell fish?

[DaveH]

2wheeler;199874 wrote:
See, to a person such as myself, this is way too much of a cop-out. How about just not sinning?

It's impossible not to sin. Sinning isn't so much an act we do, but it's part of our human nature. We are born with a nature to "do the wrong thing".

[DaveH]

tjamz;199915 wrote:
The question should really be, how many of you think homosexuals will be condemned (due to this part of the bible) yet still eat shell fish?

Justifying bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior? All sin leads to condemnation, not just homosexuality.

That said, Leviticus is the old testament/old covenant. There is language in there about having to do burnt offerings for sins, it says you can't eat pigs, etc. This all changed with Jesus, which was when the new covenant started.

[2wheeler]

DaveH;199916 wrote:
It's impossible not to sin. Sinning isn't so much an act we do, but it's part of our human nature. We are born with a nature to "do the wrong thing".
IMHO, you can control the amount of your sinning....to a certain extent.....most people CHOOSE not to do this though.

[fallguy]

2wheeler;199928 wrote:
IMHO, you can control the amount of your sinning....to a certain extent.....most people CHOOSE not to do this though.

Do you consider just breaking the ten commandments sinning? Do you consider gossip sinning? There are many things in this day and age that are socially acceptable but are by the bibles standards considered sins. Like was discussed earlier. Society keeps on trying to lower the Bibles standards to fit their lifestyles etc, but God is a never changing true and perfect God. We need to live up to His standards.

Chuck...read the first two chapters of Romans. I think you'll find that God isn't just against homosexuality, but all types of "flesh sins". In verse 20 it is a very good example how we have no excuse to not believe in God because of what he has made through nature.

[2wheeler]

fallguy;199930 wrote:
Do you consider just breaking the ten commandments sinning? Do you consider gossip sinning?
I don't see why that is relevant? I'm not the one labeling myself a Christian. I don't follow a book to lead my life. You should answer those questions.

fallguy;199930 wrote:
There are many things in this day and age that are socially acceptable but are by the bibles standards considered sins.
If I am understanding you and Dave correctly, in your lives, what society deems acceptable carries absolutely no weight in what you do. What the bible says is law.(No revisions, remember?)

fallguy;199930 wrote:
I need to live up to His standards.
Fixed. Do you? "I try", or an equivalent answer, IMO, is equal to a "no" answer.

[fallguy]

2wheeler;199934 wrote:
I don't see why that is relevant? I'm not the one labeling myself a Christian. I don't follow a book to lead my life. You should answer those questions.

If I am understanding you and Dave correctly, in your lives, what society deems acceptable carries absolutely no weight in what you do. What the bible says is law.(No revisions, remember?)

Fixed. Do you? "I try", or an equivalent answer, IMO, is equal to a "no" answer.

You don't follow THE book, but you seem to know the difference of what a true Christian is vs a poser.

Yes I do believe the Bible is the operators guide to life. I do believe that the Bible in certain books is talking to specific people groups though. Jews vs Gentiles.

I know it's impossible to live a sin free life. If it was, then we wouldn't need a Saviour. If you think anyone on earth is living a sin free life your mistaken. The word "trying" is a word meaning that I know I will fail because I am human and I am a sinner by nature, but it with Christ in me that gives me the strength to overcome temptation. "Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world" If you take a look at great men in the Bible, you'll find men that have many flaws and failed miserably at trying to live a sin free life. The difference is that they knew that and knew that they needed a Saviour to free them from their sin.

[DaveH]

2wheeler;199934 wrote:
I don't see why that is relevant? I'm not the one labeling myself a Christian. I don't follow a book to lead my life. You should answer those questions.

You held up your friend from work as "walking the walk", I think Matt was asking what you are referencing as being "the walk".

2wheeler;199934 wrote:
Do you? "I try", or an equivalent answer, IMO, is equal to a "no" answer.

Then you simply don't understand sin and human nature. Read Romans chapters 1, 2 and 3. That explains it.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201;&version=51;

[weshole]

Bump!!!

Oops. Wrong thread.

[out there]

fallguy;199865 wrote:
I believe that God being the perfect creator of the universe wrote his word through man. It's God inspired.
A quote from the link below:
" Although a diverse group of human authors wrote the books of the Bible in differing styles over a long period of time, the Bible really has only one author—God. Since God is perfect, holy, and true, we know there are no real contradictions in His Word, no matter what it seems at first. So we must delve more deeply.

As one expert says, “If the Bible is truly from God, and if God is a God of truth (as he is), then ... if two parts seem to be in opposition or in contradiction to each other, our interpretation of one or both of these parts must be in error.”

matt, one of my favorite responses to the argument that god is perfect (see: definition), is when one looks at craftsmen of various skills. a layman makes many errors when trying his hand at making something; as his skill improves, so do his creations and he makes fewer errors. at perfection (by definition), there will be no errors and everything will be flawless. are we agreed? you know where i'm going with this, but i will carry out the point for those that aren't sure.
with a god that is perfect, shouldn't everything that this god creates be perfect? you illustrated this in reference to the bible, so, i'll take that for your implied acceptance.
taking the perfection of god as a given, aren't we also perfect? if so, why is it that we cannot properly grasp the message/s?

though it may seem like it, this is not an argument for atheism, instead, it is a deep-seated question and point of friction that troubles many people.

[2wheeler]

DaveH;199943 wrote:
You held up your friend from work as "walking the walk", I think Matt was asking what you are referencing as being "the walk".

Right, but he was asking the question of me. I don't follow the book. If what I do and what the book says to do are the same thing, to me, that is coincidence. I didn't consider WWJD in whatever decision I made. As far as my friend....like I said, he does what the book says. I don't know anyone, who follows the bible like he does. This include you and Matt.

As far as my feelings on sin, I don't think I am appropriately getting my point across to you two. I think it would have to be a face to face discussion to be clear about it.

[thrash]

obviously we are not perfect.

God created us with free will so that there'd be meaning in choosing him, and with the ability to do evil so there'd be meaning in choosing not to do so.

God created us the way he did for the same reason guys still marry real women instead of robots that are perfect cooks and perfect sex machines. There's nothing attractive about a woman that doesn't have the choice to not stay with you.

[thrash]

In terms of "rights" for homosexuals..

Rights do not derive from group membership. All individuals have the same rights under the law. However, adoption, driving, conceal & carry, marraige, etc, are not "rights" at all. They're something else and the government has appeared to have a say in what is and is not allowed in each of those cases.

Just to repeat: you do not get your "rights" from the group you identify with. Your rights are intrinsic to the fact that you are an individual.