Junkyard Turbo Setup
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AcesHigh wrote:
I don't see how I got owned by that. I don't feel compelled to right anything more on this thread, so I will copy and past what I've already said. Obviously some of you have a difficulty reading this.-
You haven't done this for a HONDA. Honda electronics and engines are different than DSM. You made 500whp? Big whoop, so has about five hundred other turbo AWD 4g63's out there. There are several DSM guys out there running 9's.
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AFC's cannot accommodate different compression pistons. They cannot accommodate the fact that you have an upgraded valve train and can rev higher. They cannot accommodate a turbocharger. This is all for a STOCK Honda ecu.
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Nobody said anything about using Hondata without a dyno. Just like you can't use your fuel computer without a dyno. We can easily hook up a wideband to Hondata, we just don't have a dyno. If worst comes to worst, we can do track tune runs in spring. And because of your attitude, I don't believe I will be using yours.
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There are no cars under 10 seconds using an AFC. There are a few that are using Hondata.
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DSM's can use AFC's more effectively than a Honda can, because it's a boosted car stock. Its ECU understands boost. Honda ECUs do not.
My point here is not that AFCs are shit. My point is that a turbo Honda needs MORE than an AFC. This whole thread was not meant to insult particular product or anyone.
If you like to use a VAFC and a stock ECU with your turbo Honda, fine. We'll just be using something else.
Gotta love the NEWBIES!!
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Everyone has there dumb moments at some time...even i did...i admit it.
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haha you have no idea what my garage is even...it used to be a used car/auto body place...so its a big garage, has a showroom, lifts, everything.
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If you think you can just burn a chip and slap it in your car you got another thing coming. Yes chips can work but they need to be setup on a dyno or using a wideband. If your jjust guessing your wasting your time and asking for trouble.
Also last time i checked when adding larger injectors i wasn't adding ikn more fuel w/ an AFC. So obviously your not quite sure about exactly what the AFC is actually doing. Last time i checked i was pulling out a decent amount of fuel. And my A/F ratio is about damn dead on as it can get. How you plan to do that w/ your chip w/o any A/F logging is way beyond me. You must know some magic trick that everyone else doesn't.
You say AFC's dont go 9's. Where the fuck did that information comde from. You saying your chip is gonna support a tune for a 9 sec setup?
We can end this issue if you will just burn me a chip for my hatch, i'll put it in and prove to you in person on a wideband that it wont even be close top where im @ now w/ and AFC. We have dyno'd many cars that have done this same thing you plan on doing and they make no power.
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nvsgsx wrote:
haha you have no idea what my garage is even...it used to be a used car/auto body place...so its a big garage, has a showroom, lifts, everything.
I'm jealous; you got a lift (& a show room) this a personal garage when u started.. U running a business thru it now? If so what all u do? -
- Look through Hondata.com for many examples of sub-10 second runs using a chip.
- You can hook a wideband to a chipped ECU and datalog to your heart's content.
- You wouldn't neccesarily need a dyno, although it greatly increases accuracy. Tuning can be done using track runs.
Why isn't this thread closed yet.
2005 Mercedes-Benz C240 4Matic
1993 Mazda Rx-7 Twin Turbo (sold)
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Why isn't it closed? Because im in charge of it, thats why. So your gonna do your tune on a track w/o datalogging or using a wideband?
A.) If you have no datalogging your in a world of hurt.
B.) If your burning a chip w/o any A/F graphs based off the vehicle your in a world of hurt.
C.) If your buring a chip and just adding fuel on the stock injectors and maxing out the duty cycle your in a world of hurt.Why do you keep using Hondata as a refrence? When did Hondata come into play here? IMO Hondata is a watse of fucking $$. By the time you have the unit, romulator, and burner you've put more into the system then you would have just buying a AEM. I would rather be using a AEM than a Hondata anyday. My biggest concern here is where are you getting the fuel tables/timing tables/boost tables from. If you dont have bigger injectors you can just go and add more fuel into the game, your gonna overun the injectors. If you have no datlogging/wideband how are you tuning?
Honestly here now, i wanna test your chip burning ability. I'll tell you my exact setup and i want you to burn me a chip. I wanna put it on the wideband and see how it does. If you know this system like you claim you do, you should have no problems setting up my fuel/boost/timing tables. Secondly im going to the track next weekend, i'll run your chip vs my AFC and compare them on a track.
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AcesHigh wrote:
- Look through Hondata.com for many examples of sub-10 second runs using a chip.
- You can hook a wideband to a chipped ECU and datalog to your heart's content.
- You wouldn't neccesarily need a dyno, although it greatly increases accuracy. Tuning can be done using track runs.
Why isn't this thread closed yet.
Becuase you keep making stupid responses.
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PSI2HI wrote:
Why isn't it closed? Because im in charge of it, thats why. So your gonna do your tune on a track w/o datalogging or using a wideband?A.) If you have no datalogging your in a world of hurt.
B.) If your burning a chip w/o any A/F graphs based off the vehicle your in a world of hurt.
C.) If your buring a chip and just adding fuel on the stock injectors and maxing out the duty cycle your in a world of hurt.Why do you keep using Hondata as a refrence? When did Hondata come into play here? IMO Hondata is a watse of fucking $$. By the time you have the unit, romulator, and burner you've put more into the system then you would have just buying a AEM. I would rather be using a AEM than a Hondata anyday. My biggest concern here is where are you getting the fuel tables/timing tables/boost tables from. If you dont have bigger injectors you can just go and add more fuel into the game, your gonna overun the injectors. If you have no datlogging/wideband how are you tuning?
Honestly here now, i wanna test your chip burning ability. I'll tell you my exact setup and i want you to burn me a chip. I wanna put it on the wideband and see how it does. If you know this system like you claim you do, you should have no problems setting up my fuel/boost/timing tables. Secondly im going to the track next weekend, i'll run your chip vs my AFC and compare them on a track.
Any "standalone" (hondata, aem, blah blah blah) is a big waste of money IMHO unless you are running a VERY serious setup. Honda ECU's are capable of running boost, higher compression, nitrous, etc. which the proper map. Do your research and you will find out it is not necessary for even quite a bit over moderate setups.
Edit One plus side to stand alone is being able to tune 'on the fly' however, in this case its probably well worth its money. In my case I just have a couple chips, one tuned for each setup (track day, street, different jets, etc.).
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Yeah, and you can tune on the fly w/ an AFC as well. You guys are not supporting your chips is so good theory here. And im still waiting for one of you 2 to burn me a chip to test for my car. Idk why its so difficult, i'll pay for the chip to prove the point.
I know exactly what you guys are trying to do. Your gonna buy some chip off the internet for some setup that is close to what your running on your own vehicle which is fucking stupid. The only reason i thought of running a AEM was to get the 3 bar MAP but its possibly to wire that up now to the stock ECU sop im gonna continue on w/ my "worthless" AFC.
I'll agree a chip can work but the way most of you are doing them is just stupid. If you don't have the equipment or ability to burn you own chips w/ the tables that suite your car then their just a waste of time. I sitll like the tune on the fly ability of a AFC better though.
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seanjohn wrote:
Any "standalone" (hondata, aem, blah blah blah) is a big waste of money IMHO unless you are running a VERY serious setup. Honda ECU's are capable of running boost, higher compression, nitrous, etc. which the proper map. Do your research and you will find out it is not necessary for even quite a bit over moderate setups.Edit One plus side to stand alone is being able to tune 'on the fly' however, in this case its probably well worth its money. In my case I just have a couple chips, one tuned for each setup (track day, street, different jets, etc.).
You are not correct on the standalone setups. There is more power to be had even out of a bone stock car. The factory fuel maps are normally pretty rich and pretty tame on the timing maps too. I'm not saying that you will get another 100HP out of tuning a stock car, but you will be able to get something. It's pretty nice being in control over whatever the car is doing.
So why hasn't this point been done and taken care of yet? All you have to do is burn the chip and Nick will throw it in, run it, and compare the results. Very simple. I will also call bullshit on the chip burning theory you have going on here.
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I think I've said this about fifteen billion times. Did you even read that post above, or are you totally incapable of that? There WILL be datalogging (accessible via chipping). There WILL be a wideband (accessible via chipping). I cannot burn you a chip based on the mods you tell me. I CAN burn you a chip for a stock car. Many stock maps are available through Hondata. I CAN burn you a chip after a day of testing and tuning. It will involve modifying these maps.
Hondata IS chipping! That's why I mention it! You obviously have no idea what this whole process involves, so just stick with your AFC powered Diamond Star. As you add on a different turbo, different sized injectors, different compression pistons, your AFC will be your performance bottleneck. So be it.
2005 Mercedes-Benz C240 4Matic
1993 Mazda Rx-7 Twin Turbo (sold) -
AcesHigh wrote:
I think I've said this about fifteen billion times. Did you even read that post above, or are you totally incapable of that? There WILL be datalogging (accessible via chipping). There WILL be a wideband (accessible via chipping). I cannot burn you a chip based on the mods you tell me. I CAN burn you a chip for a stock car. Many stock maps are available through Hondata. I CAN burn you a chip after a day of testing and tuning. It will involve modifying these maps.Hondata IS chipping! That's why I mention it! You obviously have no idea what this whole process involves, so just stick with your AFC powered Diamond Star. As you add on a different turbo, different sized injectors, different compression pistons, your AFC will be your performance bottleneck. So be it.
I dont have a DSM, i have a 92 civic hatch!
Nowhere in this thread does it say you have a datalogger/wideband or will be using one. It says you can hook up a datalogger but you never once said you owned it or a wideband. Also in the past thread you guys stated that you kind find chips online for any setup being there are so many different onces out there you can use one thats close. That being said, find me one, i wanna test it out. Can i give you my hatch and you burn a chip for it this week? I wanna test it via live data vs. my AFC tune.
Oh, and your right, i have no idea how this process works, thats why i've built cars that have went faster and made twice as much power as any of yours, and why we have the fastest 4 cyl's in the state!!!
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Isn't there a 4-cyl DSM running mid 7s with stock ECU and VPC (aka piggyback) with a GCC (aka AFC by HKS)? Some performance bottleneck. For most street cars, piggybacks are fine. Standalones should be left more to the more serious track-only cars. Constant climate changes, etc makes constant changes with standalone a PITA.
Al Blaha ran mid 10s at 132 in his 90 AWD with stock ECU, 1st gen AFC, and the motor never left the car. Drove the car on green DOTs over 3 hours every month or so to run the local import drags.
If you want a 3-bar MAP....just goto AutoZone or Advance and buy the GM 3-bar for the Turbo V6 Trans-Ams. $55.00.....not sure if the signal output is the same....but probably is.
Wiz
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