Junkyard Turbo Setup
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seanjohn wrote:
Any "standalone" (hondata, aem, blah blah blah) is a big waste of money IMHO unless you are running a VERY serious setup. Honda ECU's are capable of running boost, higher compression, nitrous, etc. which the proper map. Do your research and you will find out it is not necessary for even quite a bit over moderate setups.Edit One plus side to stand alone is being able to tune 'on the fly' however, in this case its probably well worth its money. In my case I just have a couple chips, one tuned for each setup (track day, street, different jets, etc.).
You are not correct on the standalone setups. There is more power to be had even out of a bone stock car. The factory fuel maps are normally pretty rich and pretty tame on the timing maps too. I'm not saying that you will get another 100HP out of tuning a stock car, but you will be able to get something. It's pretty nice being in control over whatever the car is doing.
So why hasn't this point been done and taken care of yet? All you have to do is burn the chip and Nick will throw it in, run it, and compare the results. Very simple. I will also call bullshit on the chip burning theory you have going on here.
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I think I've said this about fifteen billion times. Did you even read that post above, or are you totally incapable of that? There WILL be datalogging (accessible via chipping). There WILL be a wideband (accessible via chipping). I cannot burn you a chip based on the mods you tell me. I CAN burn you a chip for a stock car. Many stock maps are available through Hondata. I CAN burn you a chip after a day of testing and tuning. It will involve modifying these maps.
Hondata IS chipping! That's why I mention it! You obviously have no idea what this whole process involves, so just stick with your AFC powered Diamond Star. As you add on a different turbo, different sized injectors, different compression pistons, your AFC will be your performance bottleneck. So be it.
2005 Mercedes-Benz C240 4Matic
1993 Mazda Rx-7 Twin Turbo (sold)
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AcesHigh wrote:
I think I've said this about fifteen billion times. Did you even read that post above, or are you totally incapable of that? There WILL be datalogging (accessible via chipping). There WILL be a wideband (accessible via chipping). I cannot burn you a chip based on the mods you tell me. I CAN burn you a chip for a stock car. Many stock maps are available through Hondata. I CAN burn you a chip after a day of testing and tuning. It will involve modifying these maps.Hondata IS chipping! That's why I mention it! You obviously have no idea what this whole process involves, so just stick with your AFC powered Diamond Star. As you add on a different turbo, different sized injectors, different compression pistons, your AFC will be your performance bottleneck. So be it.
I dont have a DSM, i have a 92 civic hatch!
Nowhere in this thread does it say you have a datalogger/wideband or will be using one. It says you can hook up a datalogger but you never once said you owned it or a wideband. Also in the past thread you guys stated that you kind find chips online for any setup being there are so many different onces out there you can use one thats close. That being said, find me one, i wanna test it out. Can i give you my hatch and you burn a chip for it this week? I wanna test it via live data vs. my AFC tune.
Oh, and your right, i have no idea how this process works, thats why i've built cars that have went faster and made twice as much power as any of yours, and why we have the fastest 4 cyl's in the state!!!
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Isn't there a 4-cyl DSM running mid 7s with stock ECU and VPC (aka piggyback) with a GCC (aka AFC by HKS)? Some performance bottleneck. For most street cars, piggybacks are fine. Standalones should be left more to the more serious track-only cars. Constant climate changes, etc makes constant changes with standalone a PITA.
Al Blaha ran mid 10s at 132 in his 90 AWD with stock ECU, 1st gen AFC, and the motor never left the car. Drove the car on green DOTs over 3 hours every month or so to run the local import drags.
If you want a 3-bar MAP....just goto AutoZone or Advance and buy the GM 3-bar for the Turbo V6 Trans-Ams. $55.00.....not sure if the signal output is the same....but probably is.
Wiz
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PSI2HI wrote:
I dont have a DSM, i have a 92 civic hatch!Nowhere in this thread does it say you have a datalogger/wideband or will be using one. It says you can hook up a datalogger but you never once said you owned it or a wideband. Also in the past thread you guys stated that you kind find chips online for any setup being there are so many different onces out there you can use one thats close. That being said, find me one, i wanna test it out. Can i give you my hatch and you burn a chip for it this week? I wanna test it via live data vs. my AFC tune.
Oh, and your right, i have no idea how this process works, thats why i've built cars that have went faster and made twice as much power as any of yours, and why we have the fastest 4 cyl's in the state!!!
Give me your setup - I'll get you a map. It's not that tough, for someone who owns a shop you should be a little better informed. Albeit, I do understand your support of expensive aftermarket parts.
This is what I do.
Step 1 - E-mail Kenji, give him my setup, he gets me a custom map as close as he can.
Step 2 - Take car to Elite (or anyone that knows how to dynotune with hondata, uberdata, crome, turboedit, aem, blah blah blah whatever). They use a wideband or dyno to create/burn maps.
Step 3 - Drive car. Spend extra money on waste of cash juiced scooter.
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seanjohn wrote:
Give me your setup - I'll get you a map. It's not that tough, for someone who owns a shop you should be a little better informed. Albeit, I do understand your support of expensive aftermarket parts.This is what I do.
Step 1 - E-mail Kenji, give him my setup, he gets me a custom map as close as he can.
Step 2 - Take car to Elite (or anyone that knows how to dynotune with hondata, uberdata, crome, turboedit, aem, blah blah blah whatever). They use a wideband or dyno to create/burn maps.
Step 3 - Drive car. Spend extra money on waste of cash juiced scooter.
You all are the ones mis-informed not nick...
If you think back, nowhere did you talk about "step 2" previously. This is the most critical part if you are going to be using chipped ecu's. You cant just slap a chip in that has "roughly" been made out for the car with mods, and then drive it, becuase it simpley will not work. If you hop on the dyno in conjunction with a wideband, I know for a fact that there is no problem with this.
You missed the point that this was going to be a chipped car with no wideband or no dyno.
Oh and you all are fucking WE-TODD-ED if you think AFC's dont work well
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Jim wrote:
You all are the ones mis-informed not nick...If you think back, nowhere did you talk about "step 2" previously. This is the most critical part if you are going to be using chipped ecu's. You cant just slap a chip in that has "roughly" been made out for the car with mods, and then drive it, becuase it simpley will not work. If you hop on the dyno in conjunction with a wideband, I know for a fact that there is no problem with this.
You missed the point that this was going to be a chipped car with no wideband or no dyno.
Oh and you all are fucking WE-TODD-ED if you think AFC's dont work well
With a mild setup I think you can skip step two and you'd be "ok". Obviously you won't be reaching your motors maximum potential...but typically they are mapped safe enough that your motor should be safe. I have no experience with AFC, but I have heard mostly bad things. And 8 point 500rpm interval fuel adjustments don't seem like they would exactly do it for me, but again, I have no experience with them. I'll stick with my route, seems to be the cheapest-easiest-most friendly way of doing things.
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seanjohn wrote:
Haha, I thought you were just talking about the original. But yeah, you were right.Haha, you did all this talking up of your chips/tuning up and youir not even the one doing it, bwahaha. Bring it on little man, bring it on.
How about YOU burn me a chip. Your just an internet NOOB who reads the internet then all of the sudden thinks he knowsd everything. You flat out said you have no experience w/ an AFC but yet you bash it, how's this work? Continue w/ your ways of doing it, thats fine but you will always be 2 steps behind. You can run a new AFC and have 200 rpm incrments of adjustability as well as store 2 different maps.
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PSI2HI wrote:
Haha, you did all this talking up of your chips/tuning up and youir not even the one doing it, bwahaha. Bring it on little man, bring it on.How about YOU burn me a chip. Your just an internet NOOB who reads the internet then all of the sudden thinks he knowsd everything. You flat out said you have no experience w/ an AFC but yet you bash it, how's this work? Continue w/ your ways of doing it, thats fine but you will always be 2 steps behind. You can run a new AFC and have 200 rpm incrments of adjustability as well as store 2 different maps.
Oh nick, you really know how to gain yourself some business don't you? I never claimed to use and AFC, I have always used burned chips, and I have NEVER had a problem running one. I have never blown motors (can you say that???) If when you sayed that "Im not the one even doing it, bwa-ha-hah-ha" you mean that I don't create and burn my own maps??? Then yeah. I don't. There are people out there who are far better tuners with better equipment than me...I leave it up to the pro's. Furthermore, I never bashed an AFC, I came straight out and said I have no experience with it, can claimed everything I stated was strictly "what I heard". I would love to burn you a chip, but I don't have the means to do it. If you want to front the cash moneybags, I'll get you a chip.
It sounds like you just really want to bitch and prove you are right. I use chips, they work perfect for me, and right now I have a damn perfect tune on my car without standalone or AFC, and I'm willing to bet I spent less. I'm not sayinr your way is wrong, I'm just saying MY WAY WORKS. Quit arguing on the internet trying to make yourself seem like your the god damn best, don't you have a shop to run or something?
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seanjohn wrote:
If you want to front the cash moneybags, I'll get you a chip.It sounds like you just really want to bitch and prove you are right. I use chips, they work perfect for me, and right now I have a damn perfect tune on my car without standalone or AFC, and I'm willing to bet I spent less. I'm not sayinr your way is wrong, I'm just saying MY WAY WORKS. Quit arguing on the internet trying to make yourself seem like your the god damn best, don't you have a shop to run or something?
I spent 3 hours on the dyno with Hondata and my tune wasn't perfect when I was done with my car. It ran hard but as soon as it got to the track the added load was making it load up on top. I didn't have time to make those changes at the track.
I have a full xtronics emulator/burner setup so you get me a .bin file for Nick's hatch and I'll donate the eeprom and the time to burn it.
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seanjohn wrote:
Oh nick, you really know how to gain yourself some business don't you? I never claimed to use and AFC, I have always used burned chips, and I have NEVER had a problem running one. I have never blown motors (can you say that???) If when you sayed that "Im not the one even doing it, bwa-ha-hah-ha" you mean that I don't create and burn my own maps??? Then yeah. I don't. There are people out there who are far better tuners with better equipment than me...I leave it up to the pro's. Furthermore, I never bashed an AFC, I came straight out and said I have no experience with it, can claimed everything I stated was strictly "what I heard". I would love to burn you a chip, but I don't have the means to do it. If you want to front the cash moneybags, I'll get you a chip.It sounds like you just really want to bitch and prove you are right. I use chips, they work perfect for me, and right now I have a damn perfect tune on my car without standalone or AFC, and I'm willing to bet I spent less. I'm not sayinr your way is wrong, I'm just saying MY WAY WORKS. Quit arguing on the internet trying to make yourself seem like your the god damn best, don't you have a shop to run or something?
So basically we're back to the point of buring a chip based off a setup not based off logs/A/F ratios. Because if your not the one creating the maps or buring the chips who is? If your just telling someone your setup and their burning a chip of that there is no way its a perfect tune. Tuning a chip is damn near basically the same as tuning a full standalone just the fgact you dont have any adjustabilityonce the chip is burnt. Where you not the one who said in the last thread a AFC is not the correct or right way to accomodate for larger injectors? If you have no experience w/ using an AFC you shouldn't be commenting that its not the right way to do things. It is by far the easiest way and you have on the fly adjustability for weather changes, altitude, race gas, etc..
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PSI2HI wrote:
So basically we're back to the point of buring a chip based off a setup not based off logs/A/F ratios. Because if your not the one creating the maps or buring the chips who is? If your just telling someone your setup and their burning a chip of that there is no way its a perfect tune. Tuning a chip is damn near basically the same as tuning a full standalone just the fgact you dont have any adjustabilityonce the chip is burnt. Where you not the one who said in the last thread a AFC is not the correct or right way to accomodate for larger injectors? If you have no experience w/ using an AFC you shouldn't be commenting that its not the right way to do things. It is by far the easiest way and you have on the fly adjustability for weather changes, altitude, race gas, etc..I do not recall ever saying AFC was not the correct way to tune, If I did...It was simply a misunderstanding. I am NOT the type of person to claim that what I do is THE right way. However, chipped ECU's have always worked for me. Maybe AFC's have always worked for you...but the vast majority of people I talk to suggest staying away from AFC's.
Typically, what I do is have a chip burned based on my setup. I then take this base map and have it tuned of A/F ratio. I do this because my setup is a little beyond mild. For the typical streetcar with bolt-on's I don't find it absolutely essential...of course you will gain some power, but its a trade in with the $ factor. I don't even know what the hell we are talking about, cause it sounds like you agree with what I do is right, and I'm definitely not saying your way is wrong. Different strokes for different folks. Just for shits it cost me app. $300 for a near perfect tune...what does it cost to go the AFC route. I'm curious, like I said, I have little-to-no experience with the AFC.
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