In the late 1920s the German economy collapsed....

[thrash]

Yes. All public schools are run by governments.

How much of a problem that is in actual practice of course depends a lot on the school district and the school in question, and even what year it is.

Fargo public schools are probably a bit behind the curve in terms of forcing kids to read "Johnny has Two Daddies" and other social activism you hear about in coastal school districts, so in practical terms, there may not be as much to get upset about.

I think though that no matter how good the local teachers / administrators are, conventional schooling isn't even the right setting for kids. For instance, at least through elementary school boys and girls (in broad strokes) need vastly different levels of physical exertion. Boys have shorter attention spans and mentally and physically mature later. The current grade 1-5 system is more attuned to effective learning for girls.. most boys would do better with more recess periods more often and with more vigorous activity.

Since the 70s, it's been political suicide to suggest that boys and girls are gasp different, so I don't know of any mixed-curriculum public gradeschool programs around here (but to be fair, i've not looked).

I also question the wisdom of trying to teach kids how to be adults by putting them in a prison with a 30:1 inmate to guard ratio. The horrible bullying and cliquisms and all that go largely unchecked whether you're talking public or private schools. If you've read or seen "Lord of the Flies", respressed, less violent versions of that fundamental issue are working themselves out in every school in America -- kids are seeing what they can get away with, with no effective "law" or "oversight" to keep them in check. There are no strong adult role models and as such there are some definite behavioral defects.

A fair bit of research has been done on this kind of stuff. It's not like I'm bloviating my unique thoughts on the subject. My own (and my wife's experiences) in public K-12 left something to be desired and so we've looked into other options and even philosophies of how children are best educated.

You might find the following interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto

I should make it clear -- my thoughts are not a reflection on the merits of any particular teacher or any particular school. It's not like I hate teachers or something. I am just not convinced that the public school system is effective at the things I want it to be effective at for my own child(ren). I think that there are a lot of teachers and administrators that have perverted the compulsory education system into the mess we have now, and that's a problem, but a solvable one. But even if it were to be solved, and we only had the best most wonderful people in public schools, that wouldn't change my reservations about if the system is even the right approach educating and raising children.

Teachers bemoan that parents don't get involved. Well, I plan on getting involved.

[DaveH]

Thrash, if homeschooling doesn't work out for you (I wish you the best of luck) you might want to consider private school. I couldn't be happier with the school I chose for my kids. It's not cheap, but it's definitely worth it IMO.

[GarageAlchemist]

tjamz;214845 wrote:
I like being able to have my current insurance pay my bills should I need to go to Mayo Clinic or similar....I'll gladly pay a few bucks a month to have this option as well.

Thats fine for you and I that have medical benefits through a 3rd party, but id be interested to see someone post up a quote for their Health insurance that is not through their parents or work. If you dont have a job that is good enough to have health benefits, then you wouldnt make enough money to purchase it on your own. ONce again this works out for you and i, but not for the working poor.

Regarding school systems, I'll second what Chuck said. Every single home schooled person that i have encountered have almost no people skills to be spoken for. They cannot carry on a conversation, they can't laugh in a social setting, they tend to be either very quiet or very loud. They are just awkward to be around because they aren't used to being around other people. Not to mention that they have a very skewed view of what the world is like. They either think everyone is out to get them, and are very paranoid, or they trust everyone, which isn't good either. Most that ive met think that everyone is a good person, and have no concept of the ability of people to be bad. Even if you are the single best home school parent ever, i believe that there are things that children can only learn in a Community setting. When i child is made fun of for doing something, yea it sucks, but they learn what is acceptable behavior in society. In a community setting children learn a bit about politics, about making and keeping friends, about compromise, about deception, they learn some people you can trust, and some you cant. They also have the chance to expirence many different activites, and learn their own strengths and weaknesses, and also teamwork. I think that removing your child from the community is not the best best solution, but rather putting them into a better community. There are two awsome private schools in the local area that i have first hand expirence with, and will be sending my children to one day. I suggest you look into one of those.

Concerning "Neglect" i would very much consider a parents failure to prepare their child to hold a job as neglect. Neglect is simply failure to provide a child with the things that they need. So you think a child does not need to be taught how to hold a job?

[Guest]

I pay $600/month for insurance for my family. I would gladly pay double that to keep it in the private sector and out of the hands of government. If I wanted welfare, I'd stop working and get on that program.

The reason I call it neglect is based on my experiences. The parents of the people I know did nothing to prepare them how to interact with people, making them vulnerable in the "real world" to be scammed easier and made them very socially awkward. They lacked communications skills, lacked people skills, lacked almost all skills besides being able to cook/clean/iron their clothes....sorry but the mentally challenged can be trained to do those things. They received no trade-type skills (Shop classes, etc...), no computer skills, no public speaking skills, etc... And 9/10 of them, once they broke free of their parents, ended up as habitual drug users/alcoholics.

I'm not saying you won't do a better job thrash, because I think you have a better grasp than their parents did (most got pulled out of public school because they were teased, or the teachers were "mean" to them). So I think you are really doing it for the right reasons. I do encourage you to consider at least some extra-curricular activities for them to be involved with so that they may be around their peers and have the chance to interact and grow emotionally.

[GarageAlchemist]

tjamz;214947 wrote:
I pay $600/month for insurance for my family. I would gladly pay double that to keep it in the private sector and out of the hands of government. If I wanted welfare, I'd stop working and get on that program.

So do you think that a member of the working lower class can afford that? ^^^

[PSiedTSi]

I had a big long post typed out, but got bored of it before I finished it, so I only have one thing to say now lol.

I played football in HS with a kid that was homeschooled. He was completely capable of fitting in, etc. In fact, I didn't even know he was homeschooled for a couple of months. A ton of people from our school were friends with him, etc.

Homeschooling= not all bad, but definitely not for me or my kids. I also probably won't be sending my kids to a private school(depending where i end up living). To each their own!

[MisterCMK]

GarageAlchemist;214948 wrote:
So do you think that a member of the working lower class can afford that? ^^^

I don't give a shit if they can. Sorry to be so blunt, but the working lower class needs to worry about themselves as do I. If they cannot afford the health insurance that Chuck has then they best look for a cheaper/different plan or get a better job.

[Guest]

Tad218;214014 wrote:
The media did not even come close to showing the whole thing. And Wright did nothing but tell the truth. He said we killed way more people, including more innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than were killed on 9/11 and and didn't think twice about it. He talked about how Truman's own war diaries tell that Japan had already wanted to end the war and that we knew they were going to surrender even before dropping of atomic weapons.

He talked about how America has treated black people, has killed so many wrongfully, and they try to make you say "God Bless America". Do we really deserved to be blessed by God? Hmmm...

God Bless America

So you believe everything he says with researching historical facts? I love ministers don't get me wrong, I grew up a pastor's kid. But not everything that comes from the pulpit is true or how God feels, and that's where DISCERNMENT is crucial.

Black people have killed white people wrongfully, we can point fingers all day long. Who's to say our country didn't rip the Indians off worse, it all depends on your point of view. Both sides of my family imigrated. Even if my grandparents were part of the KKK, that had nothing to do with me. The son should not bear the sins of the father IMHO.

About the atomic bombs, I dunno it kinda worked fine. It's sad that it had to happen but how can you skip over Pearl harbor? We have a great relationship with Japan now to the best of my knowlege.

[MisterCMK]

The past is the past....

[Tad218]

Mazdaspeed6;214968 wrote:
So you believe everything he says with researching historical facts? I love ministers don't get me wrong, I grew up a pastor's kid. But not everything that comes from the pulpit is true or how God feels, and that's where DISCERNMENT is crucial.

Black people have killed white people wrongfully, we can point fingers all day long. Who's to say our country didn't rip the Indians off worse, it all depends on your point of view. Both sides of my family imigrated. Even if my grandparents were part of the KKK, that had nothing to do with me. The son should not bear the sins of the father IMHO.

About the atomic bombs, I dunno it kinda worked fine. It's sad that it had to happen but how can you skip over Pearl harbor? We have a great relationship with Japan now to the best of my knowlege.

I don't disagree with you. I don't think Reverend Wright would either and I think his comments were taken either out of context or too literally. There's plenty of great people in this country and no where I'd rather live but the country itself (the people we put in charge of representing it) have made some pretty unforgivable mistakes.

[Guest]

Tad218;214972 wrote:
I don't disagree with you. I don't think Reverend Wright would either and I think his comments were taken either out of context or too literally. There's plenty of great people in this country and no where I'd rather live but the country itself (the people we put in charge of representing it) have made some pretty unforgivable mistakes.

Not trying to be a prick, my response was based on your statement and I quote

"And Wright did nothing but tell the truth. "

I dunno I'm pretty tired today, am I missing something?

And nobody deserves the blessing of God, me included. But that's the beauty of it, He chooses to bless us anyway. I personally believe abortion and the legalization of gay marriage can also take away the blessing of God in this country too... But I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

[Tad218]

Well he told the truth as far as we've made mistakes and probably don't deserve to be blessed by God (not his exact words) and you're right in that we all sin or have our own views (not atomic bomb sin but you know) as a country and as individuals but our forgiving God will bless us anyway.

[GarageAlchemist]

MisterCMK;214967 wrote:
I don't give a shit if they can. Sorry to be so blunt, but the working lower class needs to worry about themselves as do I. If they cannot afford the health insurance that Chuck has then they best look for a cheaper/different plan or get a better job.

In that case i hope that you never get elected to a local office.

[Guest]

MisterCMK;214967 wrote:
I don't give a shit if they can. Sorry to be so blunt, but the working lower class needs to worry about themselves as do I. If they cannot afford the health insurance that Chuck has then they best look for a cheaper/different plan or get a better job.

We have a winner folks!

[MisterCMK]

GarageAlchemist;214982 wrote:
In that case i hope that you never get elected to a local office.

Why? Is it because I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions and be responsible for themselves?

[Guest]

GarageAlchemist;214982 wrote:
In that case i hope that you never get elected to a local office.

I'm starting to feel more like a republican every day...and here is the dilemma, my heart says "yes, let's help everyone we can afford everything they want through gov't programs", whereas my brain says "WTF, if I can make it, anyone can!". I was a C average student in HS, went to one semester at NDSCS before dropping out, went on to Mobile Dynamics (trade school for car audio), got my MECP/EIA certification. Worked for various different stereo shops for a couple years until the autostart craze hit...then I went on my own...worked hard for several winters straight to earn some cash/pay off some debt. Got some other side jobs for the summers (customer service, eventually management)...kept my head up and kept learning from every job I did. Finally landed a job with SimplexGrinnell as a Fire Alarm Tech, started making a decent living...kept learning, growing, putting up with BS...got promoted to a sales position....was #7 in the Nation last year in volume of sales (there were 325 others that do the same thing I did in the US), #3 in percentage above quota....kept going, kept learning...opportunity came up at Nardini Fire Equipment as a System Designer & Department head...got offered a lot more money to make the move.... Now I make a very good living (IMO) and did it all w/o a college education or gov't handouts. During some of my earlier years, I earned under $12k/year...I was broke. I learned one thing from that...I don't like being broke, vowed never to go down that road again. I didn't get "lucky" in life, I worked hard to get where I'm at. I refuse to reward mediocrity....and don't believe the Gov't should either.

[MisterCMK]

Well said Chuck, my thoughts exactly. I will say that there are some times when someone does get dealt a tough hand and needs some help so there is some need for assistance programs. However, these are not supposed to be permanent and they should not be milking the system which seems to be the case these days.

[GarageAlchemist]

Then how, do you propose we get the poor to not be poor? What we are doing now obivously isnt working, so what can be done what would work? The poor draw welfare, and we pay for that, so how do we get them off our backs?

[Guest]

MisterCMK;214997 wrote:
Well said Chuck, my thoughts exactly. I will say that there are some times when someone does get dealt a tough hand and needs some help so there is some need for assistance programs. However, these are not supposed to be permanent and they should not be milking the system which seems to be the case these days.

Right, I am not saying ban the welfare system in this country, just revamp it...make it beneficial to get off of it....heck allow people to be on welfare AND work for 3 months at a regular job to get them on their feet....or make them work if they are on welfare. Get them a job picking up garbage, working with kids, whatever, so that they can at least earn that gov't check.

[GarageAlchemist]

So we get them a job picking up garbage, they make minimum wage, which wont be enough to pay for rent, a car (and all it entails), medical insurance, food. Long term, how do they become un-poor if you will, for good. No welfare relapse. And what if they get hurt? No medical insurace, and bam, they are in debt, and cant work.