Plane on a conveyor belt

[KA-T_240]

if the plane is moving, air will be flowing across the wings. it doesnt matter how fast/slow the conveyor or the wheels on the plane are moving.

[Guest]

JN210;199320 wrote:
The wheels can move as fast as possible but the plane will go NO WHERE without AIR lift which is not achieved by sitting still.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let me spell this out

plane moves ----------------------------------------> at 180mph (relative to ground)

conveyor moves <------------------------------------------ at 180mph (relative to ground)

wheels spin clockwise at the same rate they would if the plane were traveling 360mph (180mph rotation from each force being applied to them).

Plane DOES NOT SIT STILL, the engines are pushing it ----> at 180mph. The plane is moving 180mph (I use 180mph as that is the speed a 747 needs for takeoff) vs the stationary ground.

There is absolutely no way (with a properly functioning plane) that the conveyor can prevent the plane from rolling forward along its surface. The conveyor does not/can not keep the plane from moving forward. If it can, I challenge you and your teacher to show me the physics on how it can be held in place (aside from anchoring the plane to the ground)

Basically, you are confusing speed with force. The conveyor does not produce enough force to hold the plane stationary. Period.

Please tell me your physics teacher did not tell you to type that response either. If so, it explains a lot about why kids are dumber than ever before (and if so, yes that was a direct shot at you and your physics teacher...if not, it was just a shot at you.)

[Guest]

JN210;199320 wrote:
The wheels can move as fast as possible but the plane will go NO WHERE without AIR lift which is not achieved by sitting still.

You are correct, a stationary plane will not take off. This plane is not stationary and the conveyor has no means to make it remain stationary. (civil answer/cliff notes for my previous post)

[SmitEvo]

I dont think you can call anyone an idiot in this situation considerent everywhere you look on this subject you can find plausable reasoning on each side such as the bernoulli effect not taking place or the wheels being irrelevant. I think it will take off unless the brakes are applied

[Guest]

Nope, I can call them an idiot for not understanding the laws of physics. Besides, mythbusters has said it will fly (episode Jan 30....see some earlier posts in this thread where I deciphered the results early), nearly everyone on phys.org says it will fly.

No one, to my knowledge, has ever been persuaded to think it will not fly when they originally thought it could, though thousands have been persuaded that it will fly when they originally thought it wouldn't.

Heck, one guy on offtopic.com has a $10 bet to ANYONE who thinks it won't fly (he's going to make $680 btw) when mythbusters tests it out.

[Guest]

I'm going to repeat my original analogy of this subject

tjamz;89406 wrote:
Think about it this way: if you are driving a motorcycle with a side car on it at 50MPH and the conveyor is ONLY on the side car you can still drive the motorcycle at 50MPH, however the sidecars wheel(s) will be traveling 100MPH. Same principal applies here. The planes motors providing thrust would be the motorcycle in above analogy and the planes wheels would be the side car. It is very possible for the plane to take off.

[MisterCMK]

Dammit Dave, answer my post about a jet engine on a Supra!!!

[bubba]

JN210;199302 wrote:
what would the cliff note be for this thread now? "so far, everyone is trying to prove their little points"

I said cliff notes when someone's posts are like a couple paragraphs long...not on a whole thread...reading > u...noob

Obviously your english teachers fail at life too....

[harm]

okay.. I haven't read the last six pages of this yet.. but I love this thread.

note in my second post (the unedited one) I said yes, it's going to take off
..and still got ripped on for saying it wasn't, even after explaining why it would.
nobody reads my posts anyway, yeah.. I like throwing fuel on the fire. can't believe we made 6 more pages while I was at work.. and I can't believe how loud the music next door is right now.

Bah, I'm going to read 15-20+ when I get back from dinner. tjamz, good thread. I can't believe we're still arguing it at this point, unless I try to (not) think like I was thinking this morning. what I was saying seemed to make sense then.

plane takes off, if we take the facts stated in the question as absolutes.

[JN210]

tjamz;199323 wrote:
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let me spell this out

plane moves ----------------------------------------> at 180mph (relative to ground)

conveyor moves <------------------------------------------ at 180mph (relative to ground)

wheels spin clockwise at the same rate they would if the plane were traveling 360mph (180mph rotation from each force being applied to them).

Plane DOES NOT SIT STILL, the engines are pushing it ----> at 180mph. The plane is moving 180mph (I use 180mph as that is the speed a 747 needs for takeoff) vs the stationary ground.

There is absolutely no way (with a properly functioning plane) that the conveyor can prevent the plane from rolling forward along its surface. The conveyor does not/can not keep the plane from moving forward. If it can, I challenge you and your teacher to show me the physics on how it can be held in place (aside from anchoring the plane to the ground)

Basically, you are confusing speed with force. The conveyor does not produce enough force to hold the plane stationary. Period.

Please tell me your physics teacher did not tell you to type that response either. If so, it explains a lot about why kids are dumber than ever before (and if so, yes that was a direct shot at you and your physics teacher...if not, it was just a shot at you.)

I will not take it as a "shot" but I will ignore it and im still sticking to my answer that no it wont fly.:icon_cheers:

[JN210]

bubba;199339 wrote:
I said cliff notes when someone's posts are like a couple paragraphs long...not on a whole thread...reading > u...noob

Obviously your english teachers fail at life too....

I go to a school out in the middle of frickin nowhere....go figure...

[harm]

can we add another poll on this? I'm wondering how many people still think yes or no.. currently.

it's weird that three more people have picked "no" since this morning. because the answer is still yes. just like it was when i said no. i'm still ashamed of myself.. my grasp of physics while I'm still half-asleep is usually better. heh.

[uman44]

The whole point of this argument is to point out that airplanes aren't propelled by their wheels like a car is, thus going against what is normal for anyone who considers themselves a car guy.

I asked my dad (Airplane Mechanic at the Air Gaurd, worked on F16's and crap his whole life) and he was quick to answer yes. It just shows that jet powered things (Airplanes or Supras) use thrust not friction

New question for idiots... will an airplane take off in a vacuum?

[Guest]

What I think is funny is that mythbusters proved it flies (I provided links), the youtube link I posted proves the plane can move forward on a moving treadmill and yet people still think the plane cannot take off.

This is almost as bad as telling someone a car engine can be designed w/o pistons and them not believing it, even after you've just shown them a working rotary motor.

[capitlj]

tjamz;199292 wrote:
glad you asked...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

How long were you sitting on that one?

[Afsil80]

MisterCMK;199338 wrote:
Dammit Dave, answer my post about a jet engine on a Supra!!!

That's a dumb question, because if a jet and a Supra were to swap powerplants, the Supra wouldn't be as fast as it normally would and the 2JZ would make the jet so fast that it's wings would fall off and it wouldn't get off the stupid conveyor belt.

Duh!

[JN210]

I disregard my last answer...I agree with tjamz, My teacher is VERY wrong and yes the plane WILL fly, I talked with my dad about it last night and he knows VERY well about this stuff so he gave me an example.

If a train (a train big enough for a plane to land on) is moving 200mph -------------->
and a plane is moving 200mph<-----------

and the plane somehow lands on this train will it stop flying?......the answer is no, just because the wheels are moving doesnt mean it isnt flying, the wheels are just moving faster so the plane doesnt really care if its on a conveyor or not, in the end it will take off!!!

Thank you education system:icon_scratch:??
This must prove that parents know more than teachers think they do....lol

[Guest]

Tell your dad I said thanks,

[JN210]

will do, I guess I should've thought more.

[Guest]

Tjamz has my end covered! The plane will fly!